The Philosophy Discussion Thread

Safe bet. :wink:
I threw Derrida out the window in grad school. I recall running into my lit crit prof in the library and spouting off about how interesting was that D said this and that. She replied that I had it backwards. I replied with well, he’s out of his mind then.

I don’t know if that it true…and not in a Nihilist way. I don’t know if say Nietzche saw Nihilism as necessarily pessimistic. Have you given a listen to that BBC interview I put up? I think they cover this.

My gut says there are.

My gut says there is, in our lifetimes.

Isn’t that a Dylan song? Thou Shall Be Oppressed?

In the Bartleby the Scrivener sense. A Master is one whom you can refuse to do work for despite the Master having the moral right to demand work from you.

I have NO idea if that makes sense.

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you mean, christianity? John of Patmos - Wikipedia

Not so much Christianity as there’s plenty of that around these days. More specifically, Christian faith.

Thought it would reference Alan Bloom, whose “The Closing of the American Mind” has a whole section entitled just that.

Bloom was basically arguing that university students of his time (1980s) were too bent on value relativism, so much so that it prevented them from developing any other value system (“you say you value justice, but that guy over there thinks it’s not that important, so it’s not like justice really matters, it depends on who you’re talking to”). His idea that we should develop our senses of value through classic books and music is a bit quaint but kinda romantic.

Interestingly, he also talked about issues you still heard about surrounding affirmative action, and how black students let in through the fast lane without enough preparation would turn against universities and claim that the whole curriculum they were failing was BS because grounded in white history.

I should probably do that before I keep posting :slight_smile:

We seem to have philosophical agreement (no surprise there). Anyone who believes there is no such thing as truth doesn’t understand how their phone or computer works. But the truth is not always as simple as 1 and 0.

No (I’m not a fan and don’t know the music). I was channeling my PoMo-oriented PhD classmates who couldn’t have these conversations

In this case i would say a man can have no masters, but i’m missing something about nihilism here and i think i should listen to the podcast and come back to you…

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That Atlantic article got it wrong calling whatever Trump is doing “nihilism.” Egoism is not nihilism.

Also, from what I remember of Fight Club, it was less about nihilism and more about rejection of the infantilizing values consummerism pushes on us, trying to get back to a rawer state of strength and agency.

Overall I don’t think America has been slipping to nihilism, on the contrary. On each side of the fight (Trump supporters, social justice warriors, antifa…) you have people with values so strong that they are ready to fight and harass anybody who violates their values.

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A master can take many forms, the way I see it.

Anything, or anyone, that compels you to think, or act on them (to your detriment?), can be your master.

A cell phone can be your master.
As can a job.
As can certain foods.
As can anyone you just can’t seem to get out of your head.

You can also tell yourself none of these things are your master, but the very statement that they are not, internal or external, speaks volumes that they are, indeed… :brain:

It’s only when the compulsion to think or act on something ceases to exist at all, do you become master-less.

It takes real effort and commitment to believe in nothing. Most people aren’t capable of such satanic effort. So what passes for nihilism is actually selfism. That’s Trump to a ‘t’.

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Plus it’s just trying too hard.

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Yet believing in nothing isn’t necessarily being a pessimist or a hedonist or an epicurian for that matter. Trump is indicative of Trump if he is/was/behaves like a Nihilist, right?

but can this not be a trump bad thread?

That’s an interesting point that is covered in the Fight Club video.

People with no strong sense of identity are subsumed by groups of like-unminded people. Yet, when given purpose, watch out. There’s a great clip in there where the Fight Club guys threaten to kill a pledge if he isn’t registered in Veterinary College in six weeks or something. It’s terrifying yet very interesting. Nihilism is not nothingness. It’s the lack of a natural Other…if I understand that concept every marginally. An unwillingness to create rules and morals based on one’s immediate environment. So, a weaker mind might be easily subsumed by an inferior Idea that satisfies natural needs but not cultural/intellectual ones…most of these assholes are idiots as well yeahright?..which indeed does create people with a very strong sense of value and purpose not to something they alone created but something that happened to find them. Yet, don’t you think that makes their choice to join such groups a consequence of their Nihilistic feelings/beliefs?

Maybe…I mean, right? Maybe. Good stuff. Cheers.

I did find an interesting link to American Pragmatism, but I will get to that much later.

@jdsmith I think you missed the 2017 nihilism thread that was started by the mod who resigned a few weeks ago.

I did. I don’t believe I’d returned at that point. I beg that this thread isn’t combined with it. This isn’t a bout one man’s experience, but a far broader examination of a very interesting subject.

That thread wasn’t about one man’s experience either. It got into ethics and politics at a theoretical level. And someone whose name starts with R (who hasn’t been seen lately) was there, so I dare say it got pretty silly, but still interesting in a Forumosa way. :cactus:

His Shakespeare, The Invention of the Human was terrific!

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We’ll see what happens with this one. :cowboy_hat_face:

what is the point of having a point.

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You’ve got a point. But actually you don’t.

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Humanity has ~7,800,000,000 currently operational versions (and has allegedly gone through up to ~150,000,000,000 versions already). Making them all believe – or disbelieve – the same thing at the same time is so gargantuan a task, even we don’t try doing it anymore. :flying_saucer:

Well said! I would have put it more like this…

But

…just when you get to your supposed nirvana, the next-level masters become relevant (whether you notice or not). :doh:


I thought it was a @mad_masala thread. :dvd: :frog:

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