No disrespect, just my opinion and observation. But to me, on of the things that puts me off Catholicism is that the church to me “worships” Mary and saints and idols in a way I don’t feel comfortable with.
We don’t worship Mary or other human beings. Whoever told you that doesn’t know what he’s talking about. We ask her and other people who made it to heaven to pray for us. That’s it.
Think of it as:guanxi
ɡwanˈCHē
noun
the system of social networks and influential relationships that facilitate business and other dealings.
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No.
First of all, a plain reading of the text shows he didn’t say that.
Second, I don’t care if Ed the Talking Horse said it. It’s stupid.
Third, it’s giving anyone that much moral authority that’s the problem. Pushing it up the chain of command doesn’t help.
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That’s why I say put the quotation “worship”. No one told me that, it’s what I observed. I simply don’t understand why it’s done. In my perspective it’s almost like worshiping idols. My understanding of the new covenant is that God became personal and approachable. What is the purpose of it when you can just pray to God? Why is an intermediary needed? I don’t understand it at all. It seems to contradict what Jesus said and the purpose of the new covenant. And how do you know these people are indeed in heaven? The final judgment is from God in Christianity.
And what authority and influence does anyone in heaven have?
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a) You’re talking to a dead human being, which is distasteful at best and explicitly forbidden in various bits of the bible. The exact content of your communication is moot.
b) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
The main problem is, although YOU might perceive a difference, a lot of Catholics all over the world just … don’t, and it all goes downhill from there.
As for allegiance to the church, there are various references to it in the Catechism, although I can’t be bothered to look them up right now. The main (practical) manifestation of this is that the Church claims the right of forgiveness of sins: as I’m sure you’re aware, it was that claim that gave them such enormous social power (and a tidy income) for several centuries.
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I’m not interested in converting anybody. There are too many Catholics now in my opinion so the fewer the better. My only interest is clarifying the record so that when the pitchforks are hoisted and the mobs on the march maybe they’ll think twice about who they pitch into the bonfires of bigotry.
No one is asking to be converted, just asking asking questions about some catholic practices that I don’t understand. And seems to directly contradict scripture.
What? a little extreme here don’t you think?
Indeed.
I suppose you could say it was literally anti-establishment. Graham Greene expressed it in a less intellectual way in The End of the Affair.
Yes, that was the conclusion I came to. He was a big fan of various (for the time) radical political theories and Catholicism just seemed to sit well with those. Still seems a bit odd though.
Well to be fair, the Catholic Church has a long history of doing and believing in questionable to fucked up things things. I think it’s unavoidable when you establish anything that holds so much earthly authority with also authority on the relationship between man and God.
True. People are people though so it’s inevitable that the second oldest institution on earth will have its skeletons in the closet.
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Again, I’m not taking sides, but I think it’s interesting that a Christian who isn’t fond of Islam can use basically the same argument (“it’s not true monotheism”) against Catholicism that some Muslims use against Christianity in general (and also against certain Muslim denominations and folk practices).
I’m not a catholic as you can probably tell. And I have my own criticism of the Catholic Church and disagreements with catholic doctrines and dogma. However, obviously the church’s action centuries ago isn’t isn’t a representation of Catholics today. I rather like the new pope as a person as well. But i wouldnt say he’s my personal “leader” as a Christian though. But anyone’s relationship between them and god isn’t mine to judge so to each their own. I’m only responsible for my side of the street.
Clear this up for me. I’m not sure I fully grasp what you’re saying.
Are you saying you think my criticism of Catholicism is that it’s not monotheistic?
You might not see it that way, but if you listen to the rants of angry Muslims, you’ll hear about how the praying to the Trinity or to saints (even Muslim “saints”) is a violation of monotheism.
Well and good. As a former altar boy and practicing Catholic my request is simple: prosecute the guilty to the full extent of the law but no pogroms, please.
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Unless the church decides to tackle the root of the problem, so to speak, things are never going to change. Just let the poor priests get married already. Trying to re-engineer human nature is a fool’s game. No amount of prayer is going to quench the fires of lust.
Take it up with Jesus. It was his idea.
For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”
I can see why my criticism of Catholicism can be seen as thinking “worshiping” or praying to saints is that they view them also as deities. But it’s more a criticism that it’s idol worshiping and seems to contradict the word of Jesus who says to pray to God and no one else.
And even if it’s not contradictory to what Jesus said, the issue is what’s the point and if it’s even useful to do so. There’s nowhere in scripture that says people in heaven can hear prayers, and created beings are limited and not omniscient so it doesn’t seem possible they can hear everyone’s prayers and do anything about it.