The power of one

Guo Xiao is an educated outcast in China

[quote]
Unwed women, such as Guo, are labeled in China today as “3S women” - single, 70s, and stuck. They were generally born in the 1970s, are well educated and have decent jobs.

In her early 20s, Guo was an accountant in a bank in Jiangsu province, focusing her whole time and energy on her career. “I barely stopped to see a movie, let alone get involved in a relationship,” says Guo.

Many women put relationships on the backburner while they develop their careers[/quote]

Damned if we do, damned if we don’t. What is it about women making choices for their lives and yet still have to pay a price for it? Seems like the feminist movement may kick in over in China, albeit in its own form.

Everyone has to pay a price for their choices. You have limited time, you can spend it on your career or on your social life. The one you don’t choose will inevitably get neglected. Still at least Guo had a choice.

Right - it’s her own damn fault. She focused her “whole time and energy” on her career. As you sow, so shall you reap. I’ve made sacrifices with my career for the sake of my family - I know what’s important.

And don’t forget - never marry anyone who doesn’t have a car, a house or an educational level equal to or beyond your own.

I don’t get the impression that the lady is unhappy or ‘damned’ in any way.

Yeah, I don’t get Nama’s point, either. Job or family. It’s a balancing act and its got sweet fuck all to do with gender. She made her choice of her own free will, just like the salarymen who see their kids for 3 hours on the weekend or the hardscrabblers living hand to mouth who get to feed, bathe and play with their kids every single day. Right now I guess I’m in the latter category and loving it. I hope the day never comes when I have to make a choice of job or child, but if and when it does, it will have nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that I’ve got a cock.
You’re WAY off-base, Nama.

FLOB GUYS IN ‘I DON’T GET IT’ SHOCKA!!!

But she ain’t paying a price. She’s decided that she would rather not marry if she doesn’t meet someone who is exactly right, and the right person may be hard to find, whether you’re a career woman or not.

She made her choices and it doesn’t sound like she is suffering at all. Sounds like she has a good life and is quite content.

So maybe people who perceive her as being in a difficult situation are projecting a bit.

Look, dudes . . . I’m not saying Guo is suffereing, but you guys make is sound like gender makes no difference. Equality is great–but there ARE differences.

If a man, such as Sandman, for example, chooses to have children in his fifties–NO PROB! A man can focus on his career and neglect his social life for a good twenty to thirty years longer than a woman and still have a decent chance of having all the rest of it later. Yes, a fifty year old is going to be a different sort of dad, most likely, than a 20 or 30 year old, and he does sacrifice in the way of amount of time he can expect to be on the planet with his child–but this is never a certanty for anyone at any age.

If a woman isn’t in a serious relationship in her thirties, the likelyhood of her bearing her own children startes to fall off sharply. Yes, with today’s medical advancements, women in their fifties CAN have kids, but it gets very hard, very risky, very expensive.

We DO all make sacrifices for the choices we make. Choosing anything means NOT choosing a host of other possibilities. But come on guys–it really is not the same for a man and a woman with this kind of thing. “Equal” doesn’t equal “Same.”

[quote=“Namahottie”]Guo Xiao is an educated outcast in China

[quote]
Unwed women, such as Guo, are labeled in China today as “3S women” - single, 70s, and stuck. They were generally born in the 1970s, are well educated and have decent jobs.

In her early 20s, Guo was an accountant in a bank in Jiangsu province, focusing her whole time and energy on her career. “I barely stopped to see a movie, let alone get involved in a relationship,” says Guo.

Many women put relationships on the backburner while they develop their careers[/quote]

Damned if we do, damned if we don’t. What is it about women making choices for their lives and yet still have to pay a price for it? Seems like the feminist movement may kick in over in China, albeit in its own form.[/quote]

Namahottie, maybe you can explain a bit more for me what you mean. To me, the feminist movement has always been explained as a way to give equal opportunities to the sexes. I don’t see the above story as a “damn if we do, damned if we don’t” thing. I see it as “well, now she understands what being the breadwinner entails”.

She seems to be a driven individual who wants to move up. I don’t see what her sex has to do with it except for the emphasis on her still being single. They don’t comment on how many other managers (her peers) are in a similar situation as her. They also don’t focus on how many male managers in her position had to turn to matchmakers to find a wife because they were too busy working on their careers to date. I think that would be an important piece of information in which to compare the two groups.

If someone wants to be highly successful, they have to make choices whether they are male or female. From how I read the article, Guo seems perfectly content to be single rather than married to the wrong man. That aside though, I ask you this question: Is this not what the feminist movement wanted? Equal opportunity of misery for both men and women?

There is a opportunity cost to everything we do. Every time I read an article about women working, I get the same reaction. I don’t see why women are surprised that working long hours might mean you have less time to date or do anything else. The reaction seems to not be that they have an opportunity to have a career (unlike their grandmothers), but as a sense of entitlement to a great career, fantastic relationship, and everything else. Any mention of sacrifice seems to elicit a really nasty response. Maybe you could follow up what you meant so I understand a little better your thoughts.

Hehe, Nama, now you have to explain feminism to flob boys. Good luck with that.
It’s easier to just keep your mouth shut…

[quote=“housecat”]Look, dudes . . . I’m not saying Guo is suffereing, but you guys make is sound like gender makes no difference. Equality is great–but there ARE differences.

If a man, such as Sandman, for example, chooses to have children in his fifties–NO PROB! A man can focus on his career and neglect his social life for a good twenty to thirty years longer than a woman and still have a decent chance of having all the rest of it later. Yes, a fifty year old is going to be a different sort of dad, most likely, than a 20 or 30 year old, and he does sacrifice in the way of amount of time he can expect to be on the planet with his child–but this is never a certanty for anyone at any age.

If a woman isn’t in a serious relationship in her thirties, the likelyhood of her bearing her own children startes to fall off sharply. Yes, with today’s medical advancements, women in their fifties CAN have kids, but it gets very hard, very risky, very expensive.

We DO all make sacrifices for the choices we make. Choosing anything means NOT choosing a host of other possibilities. But come on guys–it really is not the same for a man and a woman with this kind of thing. “Equal” doesn’t equal “Same.”[/quote]

Ding Ding Ding…we have a winner. Now Bob, tell her what she’s won. And the conversation about any woman who has a kid in her 50s usually, begins with the question of “What’s she doin’ having a kid at 50 years-old? Little old for that, huh?”

[quote]Hehe, Nama, now you have to explain feminism to flob boys. Good luck with that.[/quote] Like trying to talk about the goodness of God with @bigtone.

[quote] It’s easier to just keep your mouth shut…[/quote]I know, right :wink:

[quote]Namahottie, maybe you can explain a bit more for me what you mean. To me, the feminist movement has always been explained as a way to give equal opportunities to the sexes. I don’t see the above story as a “damn if we do, damned if we don’t” thing. I see it as “well, now she understands what being the breadwinner entails”.[/quote] I’ve never seen the feminist movement that way, exactly but I also don’t feel as I fit into it either. But what I have concluded from the movement is that a woman has the right to choose to operate her life as she sees fit,and not have to be judged for it. Even when it comes to being able to compete with a man. But that latter part can take the argument in some really gray areas, which I won’t go into. “damn if we do/don’t” is an expression-but it is appropriate,IMO, for this situation. Seems like Guo “made her bed”, perhaps thinking that those choices could/would/should have led her to a desired outcome, but it didn’t. Such is life when you’re young. I know I was raised with the ideas of keeping one’s nose to grindstone, clean and educated would give me the fruits of my labor and a taste of what my parents had. But I think we can say that with the changing economy, world events,etc that not going to happen. I know as an educated black woman, my chances of marriaging a like minded educated black man, who I have things in common with is very slim. VERY. But getting pregnant and having a kid out of wedlock is about as easy as sin. :unamused: I’m going into my late 30s, so the more time I spent working toward something, the more of a “sacrifice” I’m paying now (the price). Also, this article is about women in China, so there’s a much different context of being single going on here.

[quote]She seems to be a driven individual who wants to move up. I don’t see what her sex has to do with it except for the emphasis on her still being single[/quote].Right, seems is the operative word. What else is she gonna do since she can’t find a man. She might as well move up, because she doesn’t have anyone who may “provide” for her in her older years some of the benefits that comes from marriage.

[quote]They don’t comment on how many other managers (her peers) are in a similar situation as her. They also don’t focus on how many male managers in her position had to turn to matchmakers to find a wife because they were too busy working on their careers to date. I think that would be an important piece of information in which to compare the two groups.[/quote]That would have provided balance, but I guess it was just about women.

[quote]If someone wants to be highly successful, they have to make choices whether they are male or female.[/quote]And you’re right, but housecat points it very well. Those choices and their impacts are very different for men and women. A man who has a child later in life has finally “settled down.” A woman, who does it, well, she’s a multitude of things, and one of them ain’t settling down. A male who is highly driven or desires success, is admired but a woman who does it can be seen as unfeminine or not knowing her place. :unamused: your eyes all you want, but think of about what isn’t said but thought or believed about women with power.

[quote]From how I read the article, Guo seems perfectly content to be single rather than married to the wrong man. That aside though, I ask you this question: Is this not what the feminist movement wanted? Equal opportunity of misery for both men and women?[/quote] I don’t think she is content. In the article she says:

[quote]“We’re not that passive,” says Guo. “I admit being a single woman comes with its challenges, but it also offers an opportunity to develop personally and do things outside of the shackles of a relationship.”

Guo spends about three hours a week practicing calligraphy.

She also enjoys whole Sunday afternoons at a beauty saloon. “I am no different to everyone else, except that I don’t have to wash men’s dirty socks and baby diapers,” she says.[/quote] Bullshit. I’m not buying that she’s content to spending a WHOLE afternoon at the beauty salon. First, as a woman, there is only one reason I’m going to the beauty salon, and that’s to look good, and I’m not doing it for myself. And I don’t need to spend a WHOLE afternoon there, that stuff gets expensive after a while. Perhaps she goes because she get fawned over. :idunno: :laughing: A majority of woman aren’t either. Second, I don’t think she’s practicing calligraphy because she enjoys putting ink on paper. That’s called “passing time” because “I’m sick of being in the house looking at my four white walls and hope I meet someone.” IMO, the women I met in Asia who were content doing this, were divorce or sick of their kids/husbands and were seeking an outlet. The single women I did get to know and observe used this to keep the loneliness and stigma of being single at bay.

Does that mean I’ll be working over time sowing and reaping at the same time in a contemporaneous Eisensteinian relativity vortex?

Surely it’s “as you sow so shall you reap” or am I missing something.

And do you really know what’s important or do you know what YOU think is important? I’m pretty sure everything is IMPORTANT but I just don’t know which things are more important. That’s the toughest row to hoe. I’ve made sacrifices for what I believe is important but in the end I’ll most likely have been pissing into the breeze. Hopefully, I won’t be hanging my hat at a time that I fully realize I’ve got piss on my boots.

Does that mean I’ll be working over time sowing and reaping at the same time in a contemporaneous Eisensteinian relativity vortex?

Surely it’s “as you sow so shall you reap” or am I missing something.

And do you really know what’s important or do you know what YOU think is important? I’m pretty sure everything is IMPORTANT but I just don’t know which things are more important. That’s the toughest row to hoe. I’ve made sacrifices for what I believe is important but in the end I’ll most likely have been pissing into the breeze. Hopefully, I won’t be hanging my hat at a time that I fully realize I’ve got piss on my boots.[/quote]

From what I hear about those on their deathbed, is that the time you spend with others is the most important. But I until I die, I agree, everything I think that is important will probably be a “piss in the breeze…”

Surely it’s “as you sow so shall you reap” or am I missing something.[/quote]
Oops. Short circuit - you’re right of course. I’ve fixed it.

And do you really know what’s important or do you know what YOU think is important? I’m pretty sure everything is IMPORTANT but I just don’t know which things are more important.[/quote]
Well, knowing what is important vs. knowing what I think is important is kind of splitting hairs. But yes, in comparison to the woman profiled in the OP, who never had time for a movie, never mind getting involved in a relationship, yes I think I know what’s important.

SO is this thread dead now a woman in India had a kid aged 70?

How come no-one picked up on the fact that the 3S’s is clearly made up? I mean 70 in Chinese doesn’t even start with S!

Nama I’m more interested in why you feel you need to find an educated BLACK man to marry and have kids with? Given the stereotypes that you hit on wouldn’t a white or Asian guy be a better catch?

For those who haven’t met Nama don’t be fooled by the late 30’s comment or the self depreciating comments - she is HOT! This is a smart, well educated, traveled, attractive girl - don;t we have any hot forumosan guys looking to settle down?

BTW don’t take this all so seriously. My wife had a great job when I met her and gave it up so we could have more time together. I know she still wrestles with this decision from time to time but as pointed out by some other posters life is about choices. I offered to stop working and stay in Taiwan but the balance was that at some point she wants kids so I am “stuck” as the breadwinner - bummer.

I’d agree that men and women are viewed differently. Indeed, a woman who goes whole-heartedly after a career to the exclusion of all else is often viewed differently by a man who does the same. Personally, I’d view both as unbalanced and probably quite boring to talk to unless we happened to be in the same field. (Who ever heard of an English teacher being like that! Haha. For most of us, English teaching is that thing we have to do to pay the bills because we want to do lots of other things and can’t be bothered with a “career”.)

Having said that, men are also viewed quite differently from women in some areas. Notably, if a man isn’t out pursuing a career and making lots of money, he’s definitely regarded as somewhat of a bum. No guy gets respect for saying he’s working on a play (unless he’s one of the few that becomes rich and famous, and then suddenly everyone always believed in him, and it’s great he had faith in himself) or that he’s staying at home with the kids. Really, a lot of people say that’s cool, but most think he’s a bum.

I don’t believe any of this will ever change, as much as anyone might wish it away. It’s evolution. Maybe we either have to accept that most societies will largely be quite sexist, or just not give a toss about what most people think (which is why I’m a bum and I don’t care).

It’s idiocy to not have your own career if you have children. 50% of marriages end in divorce and though probably most of them happen to bitches with jobs. You can’t support your kids, you have to stay with a guy and take whatever he dishes out, as my Taiwanese friends in their late 30s are finding out. Hardly makes you much of a role model for your children.

In today’s society, we need to spend our twenties studying and working, not trawling for a maaan. If it happens by accident, great, but it often doesn’t. Paying the rent comes first.

She is lucky. She’s smart and accomplished enough to have a choice, anyway. You don’t see articles about women who are forced to take care of half their families by cleaning, working in factories, etc, and don’t get time to go and find a maaan, etc.These are the true stars. Articles like this make out that women are offered the choice of two golden envelopes when they are 21

  1. Motherhood and a loving husband who will still give a shit when you are 45 and pay for everything! Family! Loooove! (but everyone will think you are a lazy ugly parasite!)

  2. Money, beauty, power, casual sex! Fulfilling life of hot shoes, travel, Trump-like biznis success! (But everyone will think you are an uppity, selfish bitch!)

It’s a bit different. Most women get stuck with a much less glossy version of both. Reject it all and make your own life, I say.

[quote=“sandman”]Yeah, I don’t get Nama’s point, either. Job or family. It’s a balancing act and its got sweet fuck all to do with gender. She made her choice of her own free will, just like the salarymen who see their kids for 3 hours on the weekend or the hardscrabblers living hand to mouth who get to feed, bathe and play with their kids every single day. Right now I guess I’m in the latter category and loving it. I hope the day never comes when I have to make a choice of job or child, but if and when it does, it will have nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that I’ve got a cock.
You’re WAY off-base, Nama.[/quote]

Yes, perhaps. I’ve seen many Taiwanese women suddenly get anxious in their 30s as they realise there is more to life than working. We shouldn’t always blame individuals for the cultures and pressures they grow up. In Taiwan and China its normal to work very very hard when you are young. How can I say it, in most western countries, it is not. In China it may be more difficult though because of one child policy. Women may feel more pressure to make money to make sure the parents are looked after. My wife is a single daughter and there are expectations. It’s very difficult for many young people in China, as I can guess from seeing struggles of Taiwanese younger generation also.
(Ok now I read the bit about the beauty salon etc… whoops…)

China’s gender concerns are staggering, but they have nothing to do with sexism.

THERE ARE 112,000,000 MORE MEN THAN WOMEN!!!

She could find a man in two seconds. She needs to lower her standards or STFU.