About 18 months ago, Richard Hartzell announced that he was going to try to obtain dual nationality. His website, alientw.org, which was born at about the same time, appears to have gone kaput, which is a pity.
However, I understand that Richard is still keen on winning the right to obtain dual nationality for himself and for other foreigners in Taiwan.
If you have any ideas on how to get this issue rolling again, let’s hear them.
Well, don’t all shout at once! 
Perhaps there have been no replies because so few people would be interested in getting dual ROC/other nationality.
Is there anyone out there (apart from Richard) who would be interested in getting dual nationality if they were eligibe?
Personally, I’d be content with permanent residency without all the unnecessarily strict requirements, but that’s a different topic.
So, dual nationality - any takers?
I think it is certainly a worthy goal . . . . . and, by the way, in reviewing other postings in this “Dual Nationality and Dual Citizenship” thread, I see that some persons have recommended writing essays to the local (Chinese) newspapers, since these newspapers all have “Readers’ Contributions” pages . . . . . and other suggestions such as approaching Legislators and asking that the ROC Nationality Law be amended to recognize “international reciprocity”, etc. however I don’t see that anyone has taken up with these suggestions . . . . . . so I wonder what is going on in that regard?
So can anyone tell me the benefits of dual nationality aside from work related? I have asked before and no one seems willing to point it out. I mean yes we could vote…that’s great I guess…and we could come and go as we please but then again if we want to go so much why are we still here…we can already buy more property than we can afford…the taxes would be the same…and yes, if we p*ss off the government they could still revoke our dual citizenship and ship us off…so I don’t see where that would help. So what’s the point? Fewer trips to the foreign affairs police. Yep that would help, the 15 minutes out of a year I spend there is really wearing me out. Not worrying about a work permit…sure great but then again the 1/3 reduction in salary because I was considered a citizen isn’t very appealing. Oh, getting a credit card…now that would be great. The ability to rack up debt in TWO instead of one, a great ambition indeed. Just what the world needs.
Of course, as Jimmy as pointed out elsewhere…Taiwan doesn’t exist so why bother? :raspberry:
Vannyel - It’s not just the practical benefits; some foreigners have fallen in love with Taiwan and wish to become Taiwanese themselves.
If you are a long-term resident here, 10, 20, 30 or more years, and you have a career, a family, a house, and all kinds of other permanent connections with this de-facto country then dual nationality seems like a logical step.
Some foreigners genuinely love Taiwan and wish to call it their permanent home without being compelled to sever ties with their country of origin.
Oh, I get it…the old “have your cake and eat it too while avoiding military service and having the ability to flee if nasty old China attacks” kind of love. Or is it the more conditional kind of love…“yes, baby, I love you but you know if you get fat (or change in anyway I don’t like) then I am going back to my first relationship.” 
Does renouncing your original citizenship keep you from visiting your country of origin? I don’t think so. It just means you can’t live in Taiwan most of your life and then flee back home to a better health care system when you are getting too old to enjoy life here.
So people want the best of both worlds - or both countries in this case. What’s wrong with that? Aren’t there plenty of ROC passport holders who also have a US passport? Do you disapprove of them too?
It’s interesting you mention military service. My Australian friend was born in Portugal and had the opportunity to obtain dual nationality. The catch was that he needed to do the national service in Portugal in order to get the passport. In the end he decided to stick with the one passport.
AFAIK, any foreign male wanting to obtain an ROC passport has to do military service. Therefore, dual national wannabes would certainly have to do their fair share of push-ups in order to get their cake.
Vannyel, these days there’s loads of people for whom dual citizenship would make life a lot easier. A prime example is mixed couples (one Taiwanese, one form elsewhere). There are very legitimate reasons for having to live for long periods of time on one country, but still be able to change your mind about where you live for hte rest of your life.
This is a ridiculous argument, especially in light of the fact that Taiwanese are not asked to prove their love for Taiwan by choosing only one citizenship. Nothing stops them having two citizenships.
Brian
Well Spack…as a matter of fact I do disapprove of ROC citizens that have dual citizenship. I think you should pick a country and stick to it. If you are wealthy enough to be zooming back and forth between countries I hardly think you need to concern yourself with a collection of passports…(I have one Taiwanese friend that has his ROC passport, a British passport, an Australian passport, and a New Zealand passport 
)
Actually, since there is no provision for keeping your old citizenship and acquiring ROC citizenship we aren’t sure how many pushups anyone would be doing - but it’s a safe bet if that was still a requirement a large group of guys would be whinning about that as well. 
Bu Lai En…you said “Vannyel, these days there’s loads of people for whom dual citizenship would make life a lot easier. A prime example is mixed couples (one Taiwanese, one form elsewhere).”
I am not exactly sure how this figures into things. As I told Spack, if the couple is wealthy enough to be jet-setting around the globe I think dual citizenship might be the last thing they need to worry about. But then again, I am not a couple so I wouldn’t know. 
And you mentioned, “There are very legitimate reasons for having to live for long periods of time on one country, but still be able to change your mind about where you live for hte rest of your life.”
But you failed to give any examples. Sure the desire to work somewhere else for decades, making a lot of cash and then chosing to go back home after it’s all over is one. And as I mentioned earlier, running back home to a better health care system is another. 
And finally, your statement “This is a ridiculous argument, especially in light of the fact that Taiwanese are not asked to prove their love for Taiwan by choosing only one citizenship. Nothing stops them having two citizenships.”
Well I find this statement to be ridiculous as well…it’s the old “Johnny has new pair of trainers so I should have one too…MOM!” 
It unfair but it’s the law. This is Taiwan and unfortunately for foreigners the laws aren’t clear or fair. But until you surrender your citizenship and attain Taiwanese citizenship it looks like you are stuck being treated unfairly. Of course is there anything stopping you from renouncing your old citizenship, attaining Taiwanese citizenship then going back and retaining your old citizenship?
And in case everyone has missed it in the news recently there have been reports of many countries now rescending naturalized citizens’ citizenship for various reasons. Attaining Taiwanese citizenship is no guarantee that you will be able to keep it or have the great expansion of new rights. I am sure if Taiwan does make any changes to the citizenship laws it include more restrictions on what naturalized citizens can and can not do. 
The vast majority of mixed couples in Taiwan are far from wealthy. They probably have modest incomes like me and my Taiwanese wife. We have a son, so for the three of us to travel to and from the UK gets very expensive. We’d like to go back once a year, but it’s working out to one trip every two years.
Where do you get this ‘wealthy jet-setters’ idea from?
As for legitimate reasons to live in Taiwan for a long period, can’t you think what they might be?
Take me for example, I have had a job here for twelve years, I own a house, I’m married to a Taiwanese national and I have a Taiwanese son.
My wife can become a British citizen if she wants to, and is not required to give up her ROC passport. It’s therefore reasonable to question the rationale behind the ROC government’s refusal to allow foreigners to become dual nationals.
I am not sure about Brits but for us Americans the ‘average’ person (or family) can’t afford to take a trip abroad every year, every two years or even every five years. Granted that might not qualify as wealthy but it’s certainly above average.
Well you mentioned some good legitimate reasons for living in Taiwan for a long period and that’s great. Now, may I ask how exactly will any of this would change if you have dual citizenship? :help:
I think it is obvious that each country is unique and has the RIGHT to decide how it wants to handle immigration issues.
My coworkers just concluded a lengthy discussion on how difficult it is for an immigrant to get U.S. citizenship, how unfair the system is, and several other points.
They also mentioned that it’s very difficult to attain Taiwanese citizenship EVEN for people willing to give up their old citizenship.
I searched the web and this site but the links to the requirements are down (or broken) since I really haven’t thought about Taiwanese citizenship although maybe I should try since it seems to be a popular topic here and I am too old to worry about the military requirement and I am not that attached to my U.S. citizenhip at the moment ( George has done a good job of seeing to that) and I do like Taiwan - do you know where I can find a list of the requirements?
Thanks
A friend of mine in Taichung has been living in Taiwan nearly 40 years, and is coming up to retirement time at the age of 65. At that point, he said that he would like to do some extended travelling around the globe, and would plan to wind that up in two or three years, and then return to Taiwan. During these two or three years, he would expect to be in Taiwan for only a few days each year . . . . if that.
Does permanent residency allow him to do this? No. He would have to have Taiwan citizenship in order to have the liberty to leave Taiwan for a couple years and then have the right to come back and continue living here permanently. (The “exceptions” to the 183 day physical presence requirement for permanent residents do not apply to criteria such as “extended foreign travel.”)
Of course you are right Hartzell, your friend would have to just settle for a landing visa for the next two or three years…and when he came back he would have to start all over again. But then again…he knew this almost 40 years ago…didn’t he? 
Meaning what? That he should not hope to obtain dual nationality because he ‘knew the score’ when he first arrived in Taiwan forty years ago? I fail to see the logic.
Can we turn our attention now to practical suggestions about how to proceed? Are there any legislators who might be interested in helping long-term residents obtain dual nationality?
The PFP Legislator Daniel Huang has been actively researching this topic with me over the last few years. (A possible romanization of his name is Huang2 Yi4 Jiao1.)
Spack, just on a point of order, unless the rules in UK have been changed from the time when my first wife obtained UK citizenship, then your Taiwanese wife WOULD be required to give up her ROC citizenship by the UK authorities.
The UK does not allow for the obtaining of dual nationality other than by birth, even a US citizen wanting to take up UK citizenship would have to relinquish their US passport etc.
[quote=“Traveller”]Spack, just on a point of order, unless the rules in UK have been changed from the time when my first wife obtained UK citizenship, then your Taiwanese wife WOULD be required to give up her ROC citizenship by the UK authorities.
The UK does not allow for the obtaining of dual nationality other than by birth, even a US citizen wanting to take up UK citizenship would have to relinquish their US passport etc.[/quote]Bollocks
webbimmigration.com/uk_resid … ATIONALITY
ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=151
Matthew, as and when my first wife took up her UK nationality it was not bollocks. She had no option to relinquish her Singapore nationality. However, as this was a years ago, i accept that the rules have changed, hence stating that fact that thye might have in the original post.
[quote=“Traveller”]Matthew, as and when my first wife took up her UK nationality it was not bollocks. She had no option to relinquish her Singapore nationality.[/quote]That is because Singapore does not allow dual nationality, Article 134 of the Singapore constitution would force her to give up her Singapore nationality if she takes another nationality, not UK law.
oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/sn00000_.html#A134_
I think that’s what you were thinking of.
Matthew, at the time, neither allowed for it. UK or Singapore, however as this was nigh on 20 years ago i imagine th elaws have changed during the meanwhile.