The Revenge of Trump Thread

Looks like he just covfefed in his pants :laughing:

Why, “small loan of a million dollars” Trump has had his cake and eaten it his whole life, so it is not really surprising he expects any different today.

Just a reminder that the former POTUS stole highly classified information before leaving office, and took it to a giant resort he has converted into a palace. Feels so ridiculous typing this out, knowing it to be true, and also knowing there are still people who feel he is justified in doing what he has done.

If it sounds ridiculous as you type it it might be worth reflecting if in fact what you are typing is indeed ridiculous because it is not true. Making emphatic statements like “this is a fact” and “I know this to be true” does not make what you just said factual or true.

You saying something is classified, doesn’t make it so. Even they are “marked classified” as the search warrant claimed (not that they were classified).

Because and I’m sure you have heard this by now, the President has the ultimate declassification authority. This is what will be tested in court but has been discussed many times, this was in relation to something Trump said to a Russian ambassador.

“There’s no question that the president has broad authority to declassify almost anything at any time without any process, but that’s not what happened here,” said Stephen I. Vladeck, professor at the University of Texas School of Law.

The national-security experts at the blog Lawfare wrote in the wake of the Post’s revelation that the “infamous comment” by President Richard Nixon — that “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” — “is actually true about some things. Classified information is one of them. The nature of the system is that the president gets to disclose what he wants.

Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to “classify and declassify at will.”

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In the article, it says the DOJ says the accusations don’t even hinge on whether the documents are classified are not. They’re just having a tug of war with Trump having declassified documents, which they think shouldn’t be declassified. They’re denying that Trump has those same executive privileges after being President (like other Presidents have had before).

I think some of the confusion arises from people conflating our American system with parliamentary governments, where some of those considerations may apply. In our system, the executive system is under the purview of one person, the president. As such, classification systems fall under the executive branch, which means the ultimate authority goes to the President himself. That might not be the case for Prime Ministers, who have to collaborate with cabinet.

Also, people may be confused because Biden and the Democrats operate more like the Supreme Leader and Communist Party in China, where the party decides everything and the “Supreme” leader is more or less a puppet of the Party, was installed by the Party for being a living representation of them, or can’t stray too far off the path of Party decisions.

Republicans more often butt heads with each other when in different branches, starting with President Johnson, who the radical Republicans impeached and almost voted him out. Also Nixon lost support of Republicans, which caused him to resign. And we’ve seen ample examples more recently with Trump and RINOs. You don’t see so much of that division with Democrats…they’re mostly lockstep like Communists are, with very few exceptions like Manchin, who’s beholden to his voters.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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This is where your statements go off into crazy land.

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Yeah…after reading this…opinion…I don’t think there is much use in trying to persuade otherwise. Dems and CCP, Biden and Xi, not even an apples to oranges comparison, the difference is so vast. With that kind of caricature of the other side firmly embedded in enough people’s brains, I see how about 52% of the the Right at the moment see Trump as palatable lol.

“He (Trump) might be a grifting, corruption riddled narcissist who is surrounded by and actively in bed with other scamsters and conmen like Build the Wall Bannon, but at least he’s ours and not no commie!”

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There’s no “…as such”, like it’s inherent due to the presidency. It’s just that our general.classification system is established via EO; there’s no reason that it couldn’t be legislated, like is done with the q/l system.

Could you elaborate a little for those of us unfamiliar with a q/l system?

Q/L are the DOE restricted data equivalent of DoD top secret / secret. These clearances are established outside the EO system, but utilize.the same background checks and agencies reciprocally grant / transfer the clearances.

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Got it, Q clearance. Super duper top secret perhaps involving nuclear secrets. I think I got why that was introduced to the discussion.

image

In addition to classification levels, three categories of classified matter are identified: > Restricted Data (RD), Formerly Restricted Data (FRD), and National Security Information (NSI), as well as a class of access-restricted materials: special nuclear material (SNM). The employee must have a security level clearance consistent with their assignment. Common combinations are reflected in the table on the right.[6]

Much of the DOE information at this level requires access to Critical Nuclear Weapon Design Information (CNWDI, pronounced “SIN-widee”).[7] Such information bears the page marking Top Secret//RD-CNWDI and the paragraph marking (TS-N) or (TS//RD-CNWDI). The DOE security clearance process is overseen by the Department of Energy Office of Hearings and Appeals.

Not so much super duper top secret, more like a built in collateral special access program.

Only because it’s legislated, vs being created by EO, not because of the nuclear connection .

What exactly are you posting that link, it seems not even to cover what I described. In the weeks before Nixon’s resignation, he lost his most fervid supporters after the “smoking gun” tapes. A Democrat could be guilty as sin and the Party would stand behind him. Clinton was definitely guilty of lying about having sex with Monica, remember the semen on the dress, the DNA of which fits Clinton perfectly? He was caught with his pants down. Yet not a single Democrat voted that he was guilty.

That doesn’t work with Republicans…they don’t act in unity just for the sake of the Party. They have an individual conscience and will help Democrats impeach or convict if they truly believe such is guilty. But doesn’t work that way with such parties like Chinese Communist Party.

Mind you, I’m not alleging that he is communist in ideology, but that is another interesting discussion. I’m saying they are similar in method, wherein democratic gauges are missing, where it’s all about consensus and sticking together and begone with confounded conscience.

The President is the Chief Commander of the Army and he also is the branch that deals with diplomacy (Congress helping by ratifying treaties made by President and declaring war). As such, the President is the person that most falls under need-to-know. As Commander in Chief of the Army, during war (or peacetime too), he’s the person who decides what information is very sensitive to be shielded from the enemy, and that is always changing and needs constant updating.

If there was an organization inside or outside of the Executive that were making these decisions and the President were subservient or accountable to, he couldn’t be President, he couldn’t properly fulfill his role of Commander in Chief. That is one person, not an organization, like how a bunch of Chinese commies operate with consensus. The Constitution set it up that way because in wartime, personal intuition is an absolute must. You couldn’t effective wage war with committees and organizations. Just like you need generals who make split decisions on the ground, the President is the top, top general, which means he’s got to make decisions about classification and his own assessment of enemy vulnerabilities, especially during chaotic times of warfare.

Giving Congress the authority to classify just doesn’t make sense in light of these realities if you think about separation of powers and what the Constitution envisioned for them.

A good rundown of the classified docs conundrum and the ridiculousness of the Trump arguments.

No credible evidence has emerged that Mr. Trump issued any standing order to declassify everything he happened to take from the Oval Office, and national security legal specialists have greeted the notion with disdain. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, said the idea that whatever Mr. Trump happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used that information — was “preposterous.”

And in any case, the classified issue is a red herring

The claim is also a sideshow to Mr. Trump’s potential legal troubles over the document matter, because none of the three criminal laws cited in a search warrant as the basis of the investigation depend on whether documents technically contain classified information.

Trump can say anything in the political circus but when it comes to legal claims, it is a different matter. Note that in their filings to appoint a special master, Trump lawyers stated that the person should have classified clearance. If all the docs were declassified, wonder why this was necessary?

Notably, Mr. Trump’s lawyers have not repeated his claim in court, where there are professional consequences for lying; they have also resisted a judge’s proposal that they submit a sworn declaration or affidavit about any declassification action.

It must be the same logic for winning the 2020 election. He just had to think about winning it.

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Yeah, the troll is strong in this one.

The Deep State is trying to make the President accountable to them. They’re trying to be stronger and more powerful than the President, who was elected by the people, and the State hasn’t been, but they are there for years, and they act like demons that haunt the place forever and that even Presidents must submit to their authority (which ultimately comes from the President).

Classification systems are for the civil servants of the state, so that people can have access or be denied access based on various classification levels, so we can do our best to keep out potential spies or careless leakers. Which is another important reason putting classification under Congress wouldn’t work…there are 535 some people, way too many, all of which don’t really need to know and are very likely to cause zillions of leaks.

Classification systems are not for the president, we take for granted that our Generals and Presidents are not going to be spies or become spies unless proven otherwise. These agencies, which classify things, derive all their power and authority from the President. They are part of the Executive Branch, under the President, and not in place of the President or above the President. This issue highlights the problem of the Deep State trying to control Presidents and challenging their legacy after having been President. When the President deems something is no longer worth being classified, which should happen a lot oftener as most classified information is time sensitive anyhow, then it simply happens…just like with Lincoln before we even had classification systems. To be sure he dealt with confidential information and was very meticulous who could know or didn’t know and as the war or foreign affairs evolved, so did the nature of confidential information. What was once confidential today, can then become news and history the next day, when the President thinks its okay. Basically, when the President starts publicizing classified information, he obviously doesn’t think it’s classified anymore (unless there be mental issues, such as with Biden, and needs to be removed).

Worrying about the President putting stuff on paper like a frenzied librarian was not done for Obama or even Republican Presidents. It’s all about Trump and their throwing everything on the wall to see what sticks. And nothing has so far.

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totally backwards. congress is basically deemed worthy of access by will of the people via getting elected, and hence don’t go through the clearance process. generals fill out a sf-86 like everyone else.