The risks of buying a vehicle without registration papers

[b]Moderator note:

This thread was pulled out of flounder to continue the discussion of “paperless” bikes and the possible consequences of owing one.

We’ve had several of these bikes listed for sale here in the past, as well as new arrivals still on tourist visas asking questions about the pros and cons of buying such a machine.

In years past, proponents would claim that you couldn’t get tickets, not have to pay registration fees, not have to worry about having a local license, etc… And for the most part, they got away with it.

However, many of the old-timers either know someone or themselves have suffered the consequences of a deeper police inquiry into the history of their vehicles. Confiscation, heavy fines, and even incarceration are all possibilities that people owning these bikes need to be aware of. I personally know someone who spent 4 days in a Taipei lock-up after the police discovered his no-paper bike had been registered stolen the year before. [/b]

So, an illegal bike that can be impounded by the cops at any time. Made that mistake once. Never again. The bike is at worst worthless, at best, an extremely risky buy. Caveat emptor, folks.[/quote]Sandman you got there before me!

Yes, the years of unrenewed registration and possibly long overdue fines make the bike liable to impounding by the police. In addition, things could get very complicated following any accident as it is unlikely that insurance companies will consider any policy valid. (Can you even buy the compulsory 3rd party insurance without vehicle registration? Doubt it.)

[quote=“joyarm”]…she runs well and just had a full service 2 weeks ago which cost my buddy over $4000NT.[/quote]Why would anyone put 4000NT into such a bike, knowing that they were going to try to sell it?

The opinions expressed above are certainly not those of the general foreign population otherwise there would be NO paperless bikes and EVERYONE would have a license to drive them.

oh and fyi…anyone can buy insurance for any bike…the insurance is for the actual physical bike and the person’s name has nothing to do with it.
:raspberry:

Nearly all my friends have a bike or scooter. All of them are at least registered, and most people have licenses. Maybe its different down in the boonies but I sure as hell don’t want to get caught up with an illegal bike again. Once was enough for me.

[quote=“joyarm”]I have to say the more I encounter these types of forums the more I hate them.
All I was trying to do was selling a fing scooter for a friend and all I get is this bs*** from the moderator.
I wasn’t asking for anyone’s opinion on the matter…if you weren’t personally interested in purchasing the bike you needn’t have responded whatsoever.[/quote]

  1. I’m not the moderator.
  2. Forumosa does not condone or encourage illegal behaviour. Read the rules before you post. Your post did not make clear that you were selling an illegal bike and this was rectified, along with a note of what can happen if you are caught riding such.

I can can see why this might piss you off but tough tittie, sweets. Don’t use Forumosa for your illegal dealings.

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“joyarm”]I have to say the more I encounter these types of forums the more I hate them.
All I was trying to do was selling a fing scooter for a friend and all I get is this bs*** from the moderator.
I wasn’t asking for anyone’s opinion on the matter…if you weren’t personally interested in purchasing the bike you needn’t have responded whatsoever.[/quote]

  1. I’m not the moderator.
  2. Forumosa does not condone or encourage illegal behaviour. Read the rules before you post. Your post did not make clear that you were selling an illegal bike and this was rectified, along with a note of what can happen if you are caught riding such.[/quote]Sandman and I are not mealy-mouthed do-gooders. What we did was point out to those who might not be aware the hassles they might cause for themselves in buying this bike. And this is not some kind of a theoretical standpoint – both he and I know of people who have got in trouble through not having a valid license or not having a properly registered bike. I know one guy who got in serious financial trouble because he was involved in an accident and wasn’t covered by insurance. As Sandman said, no license/vehicle registration, no insurance coverage, whatever bit of paper you may have bought from an insurance shop.

Not only is it important to inform the Forumosa community of these issues, it is also important to protect the site itself and make sure it continues to be a valuable resource for all.

Not quite. I actually had a “ghost/foreigner bike” taken off me right on the street by the cops. There was no option of paying a fine to get it back. The only option was getting it registered in my name and then paying the fine, which of course was not an option as the person named on the registration card was “long gone” from Taiwan.
I had that bike for less than three months. An expensive mistake. I wish Forumosa had been around in those days.

We should take concrete steps to insure that in the future none of these “paperless” bikes are advertised here.

What about being sold for parts? I have no problems with it if purchasing it’s not illegal - just a caveat emptor that riding it would be…

What about being sold for parts? I have no problems with it if purchasing it’s not illegal - just a caveat emptor that riding it would be…[/quote]
That’s a good distinction. I’ll remember that the next time such a post crops up – might stop some people getting their panties in a bunch.

What about being sold for parts? I have no problems with it if purchasing it’s not illegal - just a caveat emptor that riding it would be…[/quote]I seem to remember that a bike needs to be registered even if it is not ridden. Can anyone confirm or deny that?

Yep, it’s a good idea except for the lower engine casings for example where the VIN tag number would be.

My RZ wouldn’t be here without my other two parts machines. It’s morphed from 3 different bikes, but is completely legal. My first RZR I abandoned and kept for parts. I bought another one (legal but not running) for 3,000NT, abandoned it, and also used it for parts. I think there is a good market for these paperless machines amongst the more mechanically minded in the foreign community.

Keep in mind though that if the bike isn’t Bao-fei’d than what you are doing is still technically illegal. :wink:

The problem is that these people get quite indignent when informed that their junk is, well, junk. There’s another thread going in the buy/sell forum that has what sounds like an ‘iffy’ FZR for sale. And he wants 25,000NT for it!

I knew I guy who ended up int he foreigners detention centre for riding a stolen bike. He probably stole it but…


If you are rioding a bike without papers, there is always a chance that it could be listed as stolen and you could end up in big shit.

Here’s a true story.

A guy, Peter (or something - I forget) calls me up asking for James from Australia. Apparently James left him my number. Finally figured out that James had been thinking of renting an aprtment from me many months ago, so left my contact details with this guy, Peter.

So Peter had sold his scooter to James. James didn’t have an ARC yetm so was going to get back in touch with Peter when he did, to do the transfer of ownership. Peter let it slide a while, but was trying to get hold of James becuase he’d got sent several fines for the bike, which he didn’t want to pay.

I had no idea how to get hold of James. I suggested that Peter just report the bike stolen, so that he didn’t have to pay the fines. Peter agreed that he’d probably have to do that.

Later I realised the possible consequences fo this. James leaves Taiwan, and sells the scooter to another foreigner. It has now become a ‘foreigner bike’ without papers. One day, some other poor guy who bought the bioke because it was cheap without papers, gets pulled over on a random check. No licence, no papers. Cops check it. It’s a stolen bike. Off to Sanxia for a spell behind bars before being deported for this porr chappie.

This is not farfetched. All except the last paragraph already happened.

Brian

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]I knew I guy who ended up int he foreigners detention centre…

Here’s a true story.

A guy, Peter (or something - I forget) calls me up asking for James from Australia. Apparently James left him my number. Finally figured out that James had been thinking of renting an aprtment from me many months ago, so left my contact details with this guy, Peter.

So Peter had sold his scooter to James. James didn’t have an ARC yetm so was going to get back in touch with Peter when he did, to do the transfer of ownership. Peter let it slide a while, but was trying to get hold of James becuase he’d got sent several fines for the bike, which he didn’t want to pay.

I had no idea how to get hold of James. I suggested that Peter just report the bike stolen, so that he didn’t have to pay the fines. Peter agreed that he’d probably have to do that.

Later I realised the possible consequences fo this. James leaves Taiwan, and sells the scooter to another foreigner. It has now become a ‘foreigner bike’ without papers. One day, some other poor guy who bought the bioke because it was cheap without papers, gets pulled over on a random check. No licence, no papers. Cops check it. It’s a stolen bike. Off to Sanxia for a spell behind bars before being deported for this porr chappie.

This is not farfetched. All except the last paragraph already happened.

Brian[/quote]

Same happened to me but I escaped the last paragraph as well. I was riding a repainted NSR and the color was not matching the papers and to top that up, they couldn’t find the serial number on the Engine so they thought it had been filed off. Over 3 hours I spent at the cop shop and they made it clear to me that I was not sleeping at home that night if they found out my bike was stolen. The next day I got the color changed on the papers and had to go through inspection again to do so.
One may get away with it for years. My bike had just been repainted. I found out I was the tenth owner but luckily, it was legal.

I heard that even if you buy a bike with papers, if the papers and serial numbers were fake or made legal with some illegal practice and that they found out, you get deported just the same.
It’s a good thing to actually go to the police station and get them to do a check on the authenticity of your papers when buying a second hand bike. Something to do with the registration place and the many police stations that do not communicate and echange proper information regarding illegal vehicules. If I steal a bike and that it happens to have ID’s,(like an ARC or a citizen card)under the seat or something, I can easily get the papers transfered into my name, even if the bike was reported stolen in some other police station. Hell, everything is done with the stamp signature here and I can get a chop made at any locksmith.

DO NOT DO IT!!!
No papers or anything not right, you will be prosecuted and deported not being able to return for quite a few years. I bought a bike with papers,the papers were"being changed to my name" and then I never got them. I checked the papers with the bike before paying half,engine number etc, and everything checked out right, then the police came along and the bike was stolen,I could not find the person who sold it to me(of course) so I was charged with stealing it. I went to court,the police lied in their statement in court,(all in Chinese). Lost the case and then I went to Appeals court,the judge basically said in the first minute,"Produce the person who sold it to you or forget it"Real unbias justice there! I had witnesses who knew I bought the bike but to no avail. Got deported and not allowed to return for ten years.
SO DO NOT TAKE THE RISK, you save a few bucks,but in the end you could lose a whole lot more. As for Justice…well make up your own minds

I have a 50cc beater I bought off of a friend the day she was leaving. I lost the registration card (in her name) a couple of years ago. I can’t switch it to my name anyway. I got pulled over once by the police. Told them it was under her name. They entered my I.D. into the computer…incase she ever reported it stolen…I’m guessing.

I also had a RZR that a boss helped me buy…I then lent it to someone…with a saftey deposit of value to the bike…and they never came back to swap back for their money…I got a call from my ex-boss asking about the bike. I told him I had no idea where it was now. He said he had gotten a ticket in the mail. And was going to report the bike stolen. Since I hadn’t actually “sold” the bike…and the guy never contacted me…I told him to go ahead.

So if you live in Chung-Li and bought a RZR from a guy who lived at the Buddhist Monk Univeristy…and talked about nothing other than having sex…with anyone or anything…Then you should contact me about getting the papers changed over.

I had a foreigner purchase a bike from me but he sold it to another guy. I had arranged to meet him to change the name of ownership once he had his ARC.

He kept pissing me around and never showed up. Then I got some tickets for illegal parking. The tickets have the photo of where the bike is. He had left the bike parked illegally and after being too drunk couldn’t find it again.

I told him if he didn’t show up with the $$$ for the fines and change the name I would report the bike stolen.

He didnt, I did.

He was stopped outside the movie theatre at Mitsukoshi in Taichung trying to start the bike. Cops called me to say they had recovered my stolen bike.

I sold it to a bike shop. I also fronted the guy in the lockup and he promptly came up with the $$$ to pay what he owed me.

Never did see him again.

Hey all,

I’ve been offered a scooter with no registration or ownership papers.
Does anyone know what the disadvantages would be of having an unregistered scooter.

thanks to anyone who can clue me in.

AG

It could be stolen or have loads of fines racked up.