The US-Mexico border thread

When I say “this,” I mean the whole wall fiasco. If it’s built, it won’t be effective, will go way over budget, and no Mexican funds will have been used to build it. If it’s not built, egg on his face, broken promise, etc.

As for ugliness, I think it’s all ugly. Both sides. Interests of the USA? What’s that anymore? And the egomaniac Trump is as guilty as anyone in this regard. I’ll add a meme that sums up my feelings if I can find it.

Here we go.

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And just because it’s Friday.

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Why do you think it won’t be effective. Some places have a flimsy barbed wire fence you can either step over or just lift up and duck under. Are you telling me a 30ft steel wall is no more effective than that?

While 9,570 citizens of various African countries entered Israel illegally in the first half of 2012, only 34 did the same in the first six months of 2013.

After the entire fence was completed, the number of migrant crossings had dropped to 16 in 2016.

It seems to be working fine somewhere else!

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My weekend is starting in about 15 minutes folks. Scotch will very soon be passing these lips. I’ll just say that I will declare my love for Trump publicly on this forum if a 30ft steel wall is actually built along the nearly 2,000 mile border with Mexico.

152 miles at a cost of $450 million. And 152 miles can be actually patrolled.

No need to do that,or anyone, I actually get why some people are so against him, it would take me longer than 15 minutes to list his faults both personally and politically. Enjoy the scotch and your weekend.

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Spending less than 10B to build a wall and potentially save several billions each year sounds like a great deal to me. I know it won’t reduce illegal migration to 0, but in Israel’s case it was reduced to negligible levels.
The amount of money required for the US/Mexico wall is next to nothing when compared to the overall budget the US has at its disposal.
Border security and the prevention of illegal migration should be a priority in every country. The only reason why this has become a heavy partisan topic and one party is absolutely against it is this:

lati

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So do I.

A physical wall likely won’t halt illegal immigration in its tracks. But it will provide a position from which the US border patrol can monitor things and, hopefully, stop any egregiously illegal activity committed by US citizens or non-citizens.

The larger point about a wall, though, is that it helps reinforce the idea that the law must be enforced: nobody can avoid the consequences of breaking the law, illegal immigrants included. Turning your back on overt lawbreaking is a cancer on the body politic, nothing less. It’s extremely toxic; so toxic that it explains a large part of why things are so ugly now.

I think the wall is more symbolism than anything, I think Democrats agree (and that’s why they try to twist that symbolism into anti-immigration), and as such Trump supporters don’t demand as much as you and others might think.

Surely people have mentioned that there is a way for Mexico to pay for the wall. All Trump needs to do is make the US a shit hole country where Mexico seems like a better place to live, and have US refugees pouring into Mexico. By then Mexico would pay for the wall, heck they’d build it themselves.

So far that sounds exactly like the Democrat plan, what with the GND and free stuff for everybody who’s not white.

Some things do make sense now, I have to say. :thinking:

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Yes, because Mexico, unlike some countries, understands the value of strong border security.

That would be more like a Day After Tomorrow scenario. However, I always have thought that in that case, the developed countries «climate refugees» would simply take over, a la Spanish conquest 500 years ago. Sample climate refugees are Syrians: war fueled by crop failures due to climate change. In the US, between the internal fracturing and climate disasters, a new civil war could be easily ignited. In an interconnected world, the chaos would roll over any physical wall, though.

I think semiautomatic weapons are about the only thing your average Texan owns…

If ISIS wants to start something, imagine a bunch of Texans driving those Ford F150 Technicals with 50 cal mounted on it… (a technical is basically a pickup truck with a gun mounted on it to use as a fighting vehicle).

Also “Remember the Alamo”. Texans are not known for giving up and run… even if overwhelmingly outnumbered.

Do tell…

At what point can we declare Mexico a failed state? If US troops enter the area, does that count as an invasion? An act of war? War against whom?

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Eh. Would be amazing if the headline were true, but it’s not. Not saying that Mexico is 100% healthy, but the map in the article is mostly green (govt control) with ok, too many but not all areas in red (run by cartel).

And even the stats cited in the body of the article don’t seem to match the map in the graphic.

Several weeks ago, the Mexican investigative journal Contralínea posted a map of Mexico prepared by the government of President Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), showing that 80 percent of the country’s 266 districts recently targeted for enforcement by the Mexican National Guard in a new counter-cartel operation are either controlled (57.5 percent) or disputed (23.3 percent) by the cartels.

I’m not trying to candy coat Mexico’s situation, but I don’t think things are as dire as the article would have us believe.

It’s important to understand population density.

Territory matters, because territory is where things happen. But population also matters, because population is who does things.

Does the official government actually control the countryside? Or does the map merely show what they’re still in denial about?

Anyway, what’s needed is an empirical test. Let them prove they’re in control by, y’know, controlling things. Let them stop the migrant flow and that will settle the question. In the meantime, Mexico City bears the burden of proof.

So last time the caravan was allowed to travel all across Mexico and reach the US border, but as soon as Trump suggested the idea of tariffs the Mexican police stopped them within the first 11kms of Mexican territory?
It looks like Trump doesn’t even need to build a physical wall: just threaten Mexico of China-like tariffs and Mexico itself will become the wall while paying for it.

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Lol, so the threat is working.

If this keeps up I may have to admit bojack was right.