The Venezuela socialism death spiral thread


#301

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/brazil-canada-join-trump-backing-guaido-as-venezuela-president

It’s all just talk until there’s a military intervention.


#302

Indeed. If Chavez or Mauduro had done it, they could be pastafarians for all anyone would care because dissent, poverty and exodus would not be happening. But as it is now, it is too late. And who knows what a new government can do with teh country in such terrible condition.

Moreover, a military intervention would be quite complex. Maburro and his ilk are suported by paramilitary mercenaries from Cuba, Russia and other unhospitable places. I think even Middle East. The government gave out heavy artillery and automatic weapons to the mases at the favelas as if it was candy… and motorcycles. You can imagine teh terror these gangs have inflicted. They are the main cause of the murder rate in Venezuela reaching alarming proportions. It is a nightmare scenario that I hope no US soldier has to witness.

Local military is mostly for Maduro, but they haven´t been paid in 3 months and their salaries, top salaries, won´t buy them 3 cartons of eggs…if they find them. However, as said , they won´t be the main opoposition any invading army will face. The motocycle gangs are.

I do hope that teh generals in US can convince Trump that no, a military intervention in Venezuela won´t be a reprise of Panama. More like Somalia.


#303

It’s always too late for past generations. It’s never too late for future generations. The natural resources are still there.

Mourn the lost generations and move on.


#304

I think you have that backwards.


#305

Some people are comparing Trump’s recognition of the opposition as the legitimate government to be similar to what happened prior to the Libya and Syria debacles.
I think there’s a huge difference, since both Qaddafi and Assad were (well, Assad still is) legitimate rulers that had huge popular support and were running their countries in relatively successful ways, whereas Maduro’s support only comes from the military and other people paid by him while the populations starves and protests.

I do hope the Us will not intervene there military.


#306

Eh no. In Panama, US army razed down civilian dwellings, bombed a military families hospital and occupied the country without resistance and no repercutions. In Somalia, they had to deal with warlords and lost their people horribly murdered on TV, and as a a result had to highhtail it out when they lost US citizens support. That is what I mean.


#307

You completely missed what I said you had backwards. :sunglasses: It’s less a matter of the generals convincing Trump than it is Trump convincing the generals.


#308

That is Rusia´s line: that this would not have happened without someone influence and intervention, and that the US is meddling with internal affaitrs of Venezuela. They should know, they have troops on teh ground.

I was thinking that thsi is teh kind of messy situation where everyone has their paws in and hence could become a nice trigger for WWIII. Rusia, China, Turkey on one side, US et al on the other.


#309

Ah. He does not convince, he orders or fires. Just waht we need in this situation.


#310

Exactly. He’s a good check on the ambitions of the neocon war mongers.


#311

Yep, if you blow up your market that ain´t good for business.

However, I do fear the power from the extremist evangelicals. they are already feeding thsi as a confrontation bewteen Israel and the rest of teh world… and teh Venezuelans are lapping it up. It is the same story they have been feeding for over 40 years, they never change wishing for the end of teh world. And that scares me, someone who wants to die and take the world with them…while sporting a hypocriotical mantle of rightgeousness. Suicide bombers who strap the vests on other people, not themselves. And those are highly placed in Trumps government.


#312

Where do you get your information? Where’s the evidence that Trump “does not convince” and issues ultimatums instead?

Same question, what evidence do you have for this? Or is this just you knitting together bits and pieces of things you’ve read over the past 40 years, and saying here that 2 + 2 = 5?

Because as far as I know the US has never strapped suicide vests onto other any people.


#313

Sigh.
Example:
One of the scariest articles I have read is about teh state of nuclear energy supervision in the US since Trump took over. His style of not listening and generally anti science is kind of problematic in that field.

As to the evangelical nuts supporters way up in Trump´s administration, just turn on Fox.


#314

Sigh. Ok, one article. You are aware that the media is out to paint Trump in the very worst light possible, right? That they make $$ when they can make you frightened enough to share?

And which evangelicals in US government have strapped suicide vests to other peoples?

Or is this just another example of you making outrageous statements about the US as a knee-jerk reaction to something you’ve read?


#315

@icon is a bit of a Chicken Little. To be fair, she has similar fears about bad things happening in most of the world. :sunglasses:


#316

Yeah it’s a bit like hey there’s a typhoon 1200 km away, look out Taiwan.

Years ago I tended to let it slide when people made outrageous claims about the evil USA. After a while, though, it gets real tedious. Now I tend to call shit out. I do try to keep my bp down for all but the most outrageous bullshit. Claiming that Trump governs by issuing ultimatums (seemingly exclusively) and that evangelicals in government are strapping suicide vests to other people falls into that category, I have to say.


#317

Sigh. It was a metaphor dear, but what teh evangelicals do in Central Ameirca is worse. It si what China does here, paying influencers to feed ideas into people´s media accesss, bribing lawyers to get the laws passed that block abortion, access to birth control and limit women´s rights in our countries. And yes, we do have the money trails. But as said before, we cannot do anything eunless we sue them in the US. What they do now is worse than killing people, they condemn people to living deaths and extend poverty.


#318

It’s so outrageous that it’s silly. I look at stuff like this more in terms of entertainment value. The left-wing press in Latin America is full of all kinds of wacky conspiracy theories.


#319

Please look at the historical background of our relations with the US. US has not been a good neighbor. I recommend you to look into the civil wars in the 80s. The imposition of the free trade agreements in the 90s. The economic deblacle from 2000 on. It is a heavy burden up to this day.


#320

Worse than strapping suicide vests to other peoples?

Yes, the times when the US famously strapped suicide vests to other peoples. :roll_eyes: