If you’re talking about what I think you’re talking about, I know the poster concerned and what he did was entirely justifiable, although against the rules. People were making judgments on something that happened to him without full knowledge of what happened, which also entailed what amounted to an attack on his character. He was understandably pissed off at this. He still is. The two others involved should shut the hell up about things they don’t know anything about, and not make such baseless assumptions in matters that were so serious. In fact, they pissed him off so much he has decided to leave the forum.
The posts themselves are Flamed, I assume, and thus only visible to mods until they’re deleted entirely.
As someone who is brand new, I must say that I was also an infamous “lurker” for several weeks before making an introduction. There were three primary reasons for this:
It was intimidating to jump into any forum, because there was a large group of people who obviously knew each other well, and were very good at communicating/debating. It was like being the new kid on the fist day of school.
I needed to see the “rules” in action. I wanted to see what was considered acceptable/not acceptable, and I have to say that this site allows a considerable amount of freedom, but it does not put up with any BS from trolls, I can appreciate that.
Finally, after lurking for a while I found that there were numerous individuals on this site who were extremely opiniated about both politics and religion. I want to use this forum as a way to “meet” people prior to arriving in Taiwan. I wanted to make sure that I knew who to avoid on these topics because while I apprecaite their passion, and they have every right to discuss their views, I feel that if I want to become embroiled in an argument/debate , I will call my ex.
Ling, there’s absolutely nothing “infamous” about being a lurker. In fact, I think your description of how you eased yourself into the forums could be used as a textbook example of the best way to go about it.
Of course some of us are opinionated. Of course some of us are better at making a point than others (although I sure 'aint one of them I’ll be the first to admit) and alas, of course there are those among us who don’t suffer fools gladly.
Most people here, however, appreciate a point well put, a slick turn of phrase and a sense of humour that’s in keeping with the general zeitgeist of the boards.
You, along with Jdsmith above, Frost and several – in fact most – other new posters, had the astuteness to realise this and made the decision to enter the fray on those terms. Because of this, when you decide further down the line that someone is talking crap and that you want to respond (as will surely happen), you’ll be taken seriously by the rest of us as a reasonable person. Surely that’s the proper way to go?
Tetsuo above suggested that perhaps new sign-ups should have an initial week where they’re allowed to read posts but not respond, in order to give them time to get a feel for the environment, and I think that might be a very good idea.
^^^ Ling_7070, if all the n00bs would follow your model, this thread would be about half as long and half as tetchy. Hell, it might not even have been started.
That’s true, Sandman. Respect is earned, not given. I’m glad Maoman has responded and I am curious to see what will happen. I am a little disappointed by the lack of newbie responses to this thread. It’s very interesting. I thought many of them would like to express their feelings on this issue.
P.S. Dear Sandman, I was a little sad not to see my name on your list. Especially after I mentioned you in mine. :snooty: Hmph! No soup for you!
Please don’t get me wrong, I am not suggesting in any way that my way is the right way. I am opiniated as the next person, but I argue enough with other people at work whereas I don’t have the energy or will to do it on a forum. If something really strikes a chord with me, then I will defend my beleifs as well as the next person.
The question, from what I understood, was regarding how the “newbies” feel about entering this site, and I was giving my personal reason and method for doing so. I agree that there needs to be some form of debate and conflict or else this forum would be trite and meaningless, but I choose to be selective on whcih discussions I become involved in, and the type of conversations I am willing to have. Does that make more sense?
Sorry about that, little orang – I was typing fast – but you are included.
One other point that may or may not be relevant to you guys is that those of us who have been using forums like this for a while have been dealing with blowhard, unthinking newbies for a long, long time.
With time, you can sense them almost right away and experience has shown us that the best way to shape them up is to stamp hard on them at once.
Some still don’t get it, and end up either banned or so humiliated that they never come back (good riddance). Others, however – and I’m talking about more than a few Forumosan here – back off for a bit, evaluate what happened, and come back under a new identity, where they fit right in. It just takes some people longer than other to fiugure it out, and there again, some people NEVER do. I’m not prepared to entertain the latter category.
And then there are some of us that are big enough bastards to fit right in despite the stomping.
And ling - no, your way is dead-set perfect netiquette, IMO. The contrast here is between people like you, who sit back, work it out, and then sort of just sneak in and start posting and no-one even notices you’re new, and people like Leo, who charge in feet first, brain last, and start kicking up a stink about how things don’t happen the way they want them to and bugger everyone else.
[quote=“sandman”]One other point that may or may not be relevant to you guys is that those of us who have been using forums like this for a while have been dealing with blowhard, unthinking newbies for a long, long time.
With time, you can sense them almost right away and experience has shown us that the best way to shape them up is to stamp hard on them at once.[/quote]
I appreciate your honesty. On a side note, why do you believe more newbies haven’t responded to this thread? I, the same as Loretta, am interested in their points of view.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]And then there are some of us that are big enough bastards to fit right in despite the stomping.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? You don’t fit in. The bastard part is spot on, though.
I posted my first time within about five minutes of finding this place. One day I suppose I should get around to reading the “rules” even though I must have some understanding of what they are after reading all the convo about them. Anywho I figure everyone involved here has done an incredible job of creating an informative, entertaining venue for just about everything under the sun. I love this place.
You’ve got some pretty difficult questions for new users there Loretta but I’ll do my best.
First I need to ask why are newbees opinions more in demand here?
When I logged on for the first time as a new user, the people is what I really noticed. Not the rules, not the colored names that meant “moderator” or “administrator”, not the moderating style,not the political aspect of Forumosa, never mind the turning point in Forumosa’s evolution. Just the people. I think Forumosa is as healthy as the communities we all came from. However healthy that is to you. If you want to help Forumosa, you can help a poster, contribute information or make us laugh… God knows I need to laugh…
Back to the people, my first impression is that so many get hurt around here. If Forumosa is about the people, that should be a first priority and that brings up the moderation process. I truly beleive that every poster has something to contribute for the better of this community. Like it says in the rules, personnal attacks have no place here…Is that just for looks. I know the thread already exists about the rules, and the rules but it does seem to end where this thread takes over and credit for bringing it up to Loretta. The direction a community is headed is to be constantly questionned in order to actually stay on track. Changing the moderating style would have consequences but sometimes, for the sake of doing the right thing when you know it is, the consequences need more or less evaluation. This place is about the people, no one will disagree so people first. Moderate the hurtfull posts. In doubt, consider it hurtfull and do accordingly. If Forumosa becomes something different that’s for the best I think. After all don’t we all wish to live in a community that puts people first. A community that lets us all be ourselves and contribute in our own intricate ways no matter how out of it or missinterpreted we each are sometimes especially as newbees…
[quote=“Maoman”]We hope to make this a friendlier place for them, without alienating any of our long-time users.
[/quote]
Something like that sounds great! :bravo:
At this point, Maoman has announced some changes to come so I’ll hold my answer for now as far as what this site will become. Forumosa is a growing community and proper speculation let alone is a challenge for administration.
[quote=“Loretta”]On the other hand, forumosa is what it is and maybe no-one has the right to show up here and start telling the rest of us how to behave?
[/quote]
Is that a question? Shhhh! You will revive the dead.
Again, got to do what you think is right and that really lays in the hands of admin. As far as you are concerned if you want to make a difference, just help a poster. It doesn’t take much…Just be nice and that helps. Make conversation, some people are just lonely and being nice helps them. Flaming them on the other hand… Shame on any of you who dares try to hurt me or anyone with your sarcasm and snide remarks and tell me why you would do that? Because it’s your opinion…I’ll post the rest in the “Fuckable” Thread…[quote=“Loretta”]Please remember that this site is run entirely by volunteers, and has been funded until now by donations. We don’t need more criticism, thanks, but I for one would appreciate constructive suggestions and am interested to know what ‘vision’ you have for this site.
[/quote] Hopefully I’m not interpreted as too critic because I like this site and I hope to have a happy time here.[quote=“Loretta”]Membership has increased 12% in less than a month,…[/quote] WOW! 12% in a month! That’s a load of work for all the volunteers around here. What else to say but thank you all for making this possible.
“Meaning well” should be enough to get by around here and enjoy lurking even the “basement” of Forumosa.
My suggestions:
I think the present moderators should form a group to act on recruiting new moderators when the need comes. Moderators would be voted for among that closed group in which each member could nominate a poster for the task. It would add diplomacy and perhaps more diversity.(I did not read it anywhere? Sorry if that was already brought up)
I don’t know what else to say other than a warm thank you to all of you who replied to my posts already. Thanks Loretta for your invitation and of course thanks to the guys behind this Idea that once was Forumosa.
[quote=“sandman”]…the best way to shape them up is to stamp hard on them at once.
Some still don’t get it, and end up either banned or so humiliated that they never come back (good riddance). Others, however – and I’m talking about more than a few Forumosan here – back off for a bit, evaluate what happened, and come back under a new identity, where they fit right in. [/quote]
This doesn’t make any sense to me Sandman. Some posters just don’t come back and that’s what Maoman is trying to adress in some reviews and the ones who do come back were hurt anyways. It’s about the people, not about your own experience here. Perhaps a newbee should tell you to take a hike if you are so annoyed. This is a free world.
[quote=“hsiadogah”]^^^ Ling_7070, if all the n00bs would follow your model, this thread would be about half as long and half as tetchy. Hell, it might not even have been started.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, not everyone is like Ling_7070. You find your newbies as they are.
The current Forumosan practice of acclimating newbies directly contravenes the spirit of Forumosa. So in a way, this discussion is a discussion of what that spirit is/ought to be
Newbies generally don’t post. It’s the social conditioning we’re accustomed to. Besides, the number of actual posters who end up posting will always be far less than the actual number of signees. There’s a lot of reasons for that.
So as some folks have mentioned, you need to get those like-minded folks to “speak up” for the “disenfranchised” so to speak :neutral: The beater-uppers outnumber the welcomers here. That is a fact.
Since it has been mentioned a few times in this thread, or quoted in white boxes (which I STILL do not know how to do despite reading the rules), that the site is run by volunteers.
It reminds me in a way of how The Motely Fool forums used to be run. They too got too big to handle because they were too popular. They now charge 30$ a year or something like that to use the forums, which are exception in content and advise BTW.
That would take care of some of the financial resposibilities, would it not? Stay a month for free, then pay 1000NT.
It would be a shame to see such an informative community raft sink because too many refugees were on it.
BTW, I do not like the week of lurking, nor do I like being voted off, or voted on (which surely will come up at some point). If Mods do their job and apply the rules fairly and evenly, then I’m satisfied.
First, what is a newbie, This site appears to have started generating critical mass early 2003 when it reached say 200 members.
I include myself with a batch of newbies I see regularly posting who have have been around for say 5 or 6 months. So, the newbies have been around for 1/4 of the more active life of the site. Not quite so new when you look at it that way.
The most interesting things to happen for me during this time have been the inflammatory postings on Vroom Vroom, the wang thread and the Flounder forum.
I posted up on the Dutch expat site mentioned earlier by Comrade Stalin
I asked if a woman should kick a man out of bed if his wang does not measure up. (roughly in line with the thread here)
Start:
Bollocks - I could care less what size they are so long as they don’t ride on her belly the entire day. In other words if she needs a bra, I’m not interested ;-).
maybe so, but a pair of good knockers still can do wonders to a woman’s beauty, methinks.
End.
So, that generated a short discussion that ended up quickly about boobs but appears otherwise in line with the type of conduct here.
Further on being a newbie:
I never intended to post, just see the dating and relationships area to get idea’s of how to cope with my relationship. However, circumstances arose where I was annoyed with a Taiwanese statement of fact and posted it as a thread. This generated an immediate stomping by a long term poster then a good flow of discussion and factual information.
I then started posting on a more regular basis and made enough mistakes that just prior to the happy hour I asked Big Fluffy Mathew to delete all my posts and relaunch me as Half Iron Man, so I could do half the posting with twice the thinking beforehand.
BFM sent me back a happy pm telling me that no, they could not be deleted and the world would laugh at them forever :bravo: Thanks for that btw.
So, I went to the happy hour and met the nicest group of people.
Still, a rocky road to this point and there must be some way to ease new forum users in. I noticed Frost did pretty well and pm’d him yesterday. He is not quite so new to forums and that shows.
Forumosa is like a soothing drink or gargling rock salt. It might be nice to ease the way for newbies.
[quote=“Ironman”]
Still, a rocky road to this point and there must be some way to ease new forum users in. I noticed Frost did pretty well and pm’d him yesterday. He is not quite so new to forums and that shows. [/quote]Good point. How much of this ‘problem’ is newness to forumosa, and how much is newness to forums in general? Remember that Leo guy, been playing with computers for 3 months, came in here swinging? It’s a bit like giving children loaded handguns to play with.
I don’t think we are particularly hard on n00bs here, compared to some other places I hang out it’s really very friendly.
Does an influx of new people change the site, and how does this affect the people who are already there, and who has more rights? It might be good for ‘the community’ to have fresh blood, and it might be good for the immigrants to find a new home, but what about the people who created the community that is now being swamped by people who have values that my bring them into conflict?
I’ll be the first to admit) and alas, of course there are those among us who don’t suffer fools gladly.
