Theism vs. Atheism: Civil Discussion

I was just kind of thinking that. It’s the same for me too.

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If you lost faith in your ability to tell what’s real from what’s not real, when you saw “a craft in the sky with eleven other people that was disc-shaped with three levels of windows resembling a three-storied office building, spanning several hundred feet and illuminated by lights” instead of telling MikeN1 that “you know what you saw” you’d agree that you were just seeing things that weren’t there.

A bit late to the discussion.

My take is that if someone says there is something, there is something, even if I can find no evidence for it.

I always think of radioactivity when contemplating things some people say do not exist.

Before the invention of instruments to measure radioactivity, there was no way of telling that radioactivity existed. If you can’t see, hear, smell, or touch it, you are forgiven for believing that radioactivity does not exist.

So if someone says there is a God, I will say, OK there might well be one. At the moment there is just no reliable way of proofing that for me.

I find it difficult to base life decisions on something so hard to grasp and understand.


Nice post. I’ve had people tell me that they’ve felt the power of God or had revelations under the influence of various psychoactive substances. I accept that , there is obviously much biological and psychological explanations but regardless to them it was a spiritual experience.
In charasmatic churches usually pentecostal although not always a similar thing can happen without psychoactives it’s called “The moving of the Holy Ghost”. It’s a feeling or a state of ecstasy / spiritual state that arises. Even people who have had that and still dont believe in God afterwards are usually blown away with what happened.
Charasmatics often raise eyebrows among mainstream Christianity too. There are yes many possible reasons for the feeling of “The moving of the Holy ghost” in the congregation. I believe it is the Holy Ghost others do not but often mention they felt some force and are puzzled. It doesn’t happen everytime but when it does it tends to sweep through the entire congregation.

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There are not 12 witnesses in the report, there is only one, who is not identified. The other 11 could have seen something or not- we don’t know, because according to the article nobody reported their names or identities or took statements from them, if they do indeed exist.
It hovered about half a mile away, but also above the treetops near the venue. It moved away after it had been spotted- if it was a half mile away, how did they know they had been spotted? LGMs peering out the windows?

The workers were cleaning up around 1 a.m. June 5 — not long after country music star Ian Munsick took the stage — when they spotted a dark metallic disk appear.

Were they cleaning up after the concert, or after Munsick took the stage? It appears neither he nor anybody else reported it. Were they tested for drugs or alcohol?
Which hardly appears necessary, since every report, claiming up to “dozens” of people seeing it, appears to be based on the story from one person.
And again, it hovered for thirty seconds, but nobody thought to pull out a cellphone and take a picture or video?
Do you believe everything you see in the paper or the Internet, or only those reports which fit your pre-existing beliefs?

“A dozen of us saw it. We all kept asking each other, ‘Are you seeing this too?’ It was a resounding ‘yes’ from everyone in the group.”

So your conclusion is these people are fools or liars because they can’t produce evidence of what they saw?

Sure, if you lose faith in your ability to tell what’s real, you’ll run into all kinds of problems, perhaps for example, an oncoming bus. Despite any such loss of faith (which would surely be deemed to be a form of insanity, and steps taken to protect the person in question from themselves), it is clearly apparent that what seems to be real will remain so despite your doubts.

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LMFAO @ the bus comment.
Yes that bus, train or gravel truck is the ultimate, but probably final reality check. U bike impacts are usually a more survivable one.
I pray not to get hit by things like trucks.

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I think people following other religions have these types of experiences too. If they are proof that God exists, then logically they would also be proof that other deities or supernatural forces exist. The same goes for ghosts, yetis, UFOs, etc. If you have “encounters,” then that might indicate that there is a strong possibility, if not proof, of existence.

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Great. Can we have statements from the other members of this group of 11, or are you just going to repeat what one anonymous person person says?

I don’t conclude that they are fools or liars, because, evidence aside, there is only one guy who claims to speak for all of them. AFAIK none of the others have supported his claim, so I have no idea what they said they saw.
And neither do you. If you have statements to the contrary, please present them.

Keir Starmer, the new British PM, is an atheist and chose to use a non-religious oath on being sworn into office.