You need to keep in mind that ESL school owners do not open schools so that they can “make a brighter future for the youth of Taiwan” or “do our share to make Taiwan competitive on the international stage”. The owners opened up schools to make money. Of course, one would hope that the students actually learn something, but money is the name of the game…as in most businesses.
Yip, and that is why they are gentrified car salesmen in my eyes. Never been involved in the industry, but know many people that have. Seems like an unethical business sector from my standpoint. Yes, I know that is the nature of the dog-eat-dog world, but for some reasons sleaze seems to congregate in certain professions. In Taiwan, I think a lot are involved in this industry. I think it plays upon the masses
[quote=“Chewycorns”]Yip, and that is why they are gentrified car salesmen in my eyes. Never been involved in the industry, but know many people that have. Seems like an unethical business sector from my standpoint. Yes, I know that is the nature of the dog-eat-dog world, but for some reasons sleaze seems to congregate in certain professions. in Taiwan, I think a lot are involved in this industry. I think it plays upon the masses’ ignorance.
I would hope that in the foreign-run schools, more emphasis is placed on shaping young minds, rather than just profiting from them.[/quote]
As in all business sectors you will find both good and bad.
Wanting to turn a profit doesn’t mean that one can’t put out a good product. But it is important to remember that schools are businesses first and foremost.
[quote=“Durins Bane”][quote=“Chewycorns”]
I would hope that in the foreign-run schools, more emphasis is placed on shaping young minds, rather than just profiting from them.[/quote]
As in all business sectors you will find both good and bad.
Wanting to turn a profit doesn’t mean that one can’t put out a good product. But it is important to remember that schools are businesses first and foremost.[/quote]
True, profit is what business is about. By the same token, one should hope that putting a good honest product is in itself a competitive advantage that will sustain itself over time. That is not the case with so many buxibans in this country. They serve a load of crap and the uneducated Taiwanese consumer is being abused.
However, it’s not anyone’s sole responsibility for this situation. The consumer needs to be educated, but shows no ability to know good from bad. The business owner is selling what people are buying so why should they change? It’s a bit of Catch-22.
Maybe because half the time nobody can understand a word they’re saying, their accents are so thick.
Talking about SA accents are you? I’ve met some English teachers, from the list of so called English speaking countries, that had me gobsmacked. Couple a guys from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Ireland, Scotland had me, and some of my colleagues, not to mention the students, utterly and totally confused. Don’t take me wrong, I’m not trying to put these guys down or anything, just thought we should look at more than just the SAcans.
[quote=“stan”]Maybe because half the time nobody can understand a word they’re saying, their accents are so thick.
Talking about SA accents are you? I’ve met some English teachers, from the list of so called English speaking countries, that had me gobsmacked. Couple a guys from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Ireland, Scotland had me, and some of my colleagues, not to mention the students, utterly and totally confused. Don’t take me wrong, I’m not trying to put these guys down or anything, just thought we should look at more than just the SAcans.[/quote]
I was watching TV at the weekend and heard some NZer’s speaking. I was shocked, it was not what my ears are used to now, and I am a New Zealander. Then it hit me, what are people in Taiwan thinking about their Kiwi English Teachers, and you know what ---- I don’t care.
I don’t care what they think, and neither should anyone else. If you don’t like it, don’t hire me, don’t come to my class… but then I do like to earn money, so I go with the flow and bend the river where I can.
Not one of us has perfect English, ok, if you do… 
I humbly bow before you and smell your feet.
美語 Two key characters forming one critical word that I see missing from the debate over SAs and other non-North American English teachers. The way I see it, we are here mostly for accent modelling and conversational practice. Most Taiwanese teachers can teach grammar and reading well enough. What they can’t do is teach speaking and listening (although some younger Taiwanese teachers speak English extremely well). People here want to learn English as it is spoken in the US and Canada. If you look, you will see 90 percent, or more, of English companies advertising American English not 英語 If you do not speak American English, you by definition do not suit the purpose of having a native speaker in the first place. This is not a stab at people from other countries–I’m not responsible for the Taiwanese desire for one form of English over all others. If they wanted to teach non-NA accents, they’d just leave the spoken component to the local teachers, as well as the grammar/reading/writing. Be honest, does your school lie about your nationality? It has been my experience that, in the majority of cases where a non-NA person has been hired, that is exactly what the school does.
I must confess that I didn’t open a school to make money. I simply did it because I was in a position to do so. The idea of making lots of money has never been attractive to me. I lead a fairly simple life and I could easily live on 1/5 of what I earn currently. That’s why I’m looking for someone whose is eye is more clearly focused on the bottom line to take my place and let me do what I like to do. That is, to teach. Any takers?
I must confess that I didn’t open a school to make money. I simply did it because I was in a position to do so. The idea of making lots of money has never been attractive to me. I lead a fairly simple life and I could easily live on 1/5 of what I earn currently. That’s why I’m looking for someone whose is eye is more clearly focused on the bottom line to take my place and let me do what I like to do. That is, to teach. Any takers?[/quote]
Where is the school located?
Honestly, we selected 美語 in our name over 英語 because 美語 just looked better in the logo and flowed nicely off the tounge when saying the name of the school.
Lying about nationalities - I don’t, but I do know of many who do.
Not all, but most, students prefer Nth American accents, however they are basically uneducated to the fact that people from New Zealand don’t speak with a Nth American accent. When they ask, and they almost never do, I tell them that we don’t speak with either Nth American or British accents, and that we are somewhere in the middle but our spelling is British. This usually keeps them satisfied. Another key point is that many adult students have more customers in Europe than America, at least near here anyway, and think that it is very useful to get used to a variety of accents. I even have some students that specifically don’t want Nth American teachers, go figure.
I must confess that I didn’t open a school to make money. I simply did it because I was in a position to do so. The idea of making lots of money has never been attractive to me. I lead a fairly simple life and I could easily live on 1/5 of what I earn currently. That’s why I’m looking for someone whose is eye is more clearly focused on the bottom line to take my place and let me do what I like to do. That is, to teach. Any takers?[/quote]
Where is the school located?[/quote]
If you’re serious about this, PM me. You need about 5 years experience teaching elementary-aged kids. You should also be reasonably fluent in Chinese and have plans to stay in Taiwan for at least another five years.
I must confess that I didn’t open a school to make money. I simply did it because I was in a position to do so. The idea of making lots of money has never been attractive to me. I lead a fairly simple life and I could easily live on 1/5 of what I earn currently. That’s why I’m looking for someone whose is eye is more clearly focused on the bottom line to take my place and let me do what I like to do. That is, to teach. Any takers?[/quote]
Where is the school located?[/quote]
If you’re serious about this, PM me. You need about 5 years experience teaching elementary-aged kids. You should also be reasonably fluent in Chinese and have plans to stay in Taiwan for at least another five years.[/quote]
Let me say that if you meet these qualifications, you will find a good partner in Wipt. He runs an effecient program and is very dedicated to what he says in this forum. I’ve met few children’s laobans that are true to their word about actual teaching. Not sure if my opinion is even wanted, but it’s my 1200th post, so I thought I’d do something special.
ToeStumps
I have been at a lie about your nationality school but not here in Taiwan. I’m not that picky about where I work. Actually Meiyu is just another word for language. The Mei is the same character as in beautiful. Personally I cringe at some American accents I hear. I presently work for an Australian boss but due to time spent in other countries people of my nationality can’t place my accent. I’m sure this is what has happened to bassman too. I went back home to New Zealand and had to get things repeated to me at least once before I understood. This really has nothing to do with accent and more to do with exposure.
But then again schools are starting to realise that students will have alot of trouble understanding people in the USA who have different accents, and if they go to some other place that is not the US, they wont understand english at all if it was taught by an American.
Define a North American accent.
In the US, how many different accents are there?
Consider an accent of a New Yorker to that of a yokel accent. I cant understand some Americans in Taipei.
There is no such thing as a standard American accent.Also as English is spoken all over the world, it pays schools to have a varied mix of teachers.
Nope.
You missed the point of what I wrote. I am well aware that many other nationalities speak English. I am also aware of the benefits of learning to understand more than one accent. I am also aware that there are many accents in North America, some of which are not very desirable at all.
Still, my point was and is that there is a real preference for North American English in Taiwan. I don’t make this preference, the Taiwanese do. The sign on the door of most schools doesn’t advertise “ying yu,” it advertises “mei yu.” Big difference. I once asked some young students what language people spoke in the US and Canada. One kid answered “Americanese.” North American English speakers here are vastly prefered. That is de facto.
BTW, this does not reflect my personal view on who is suitable for teaching English. It is simply what I think to be the state of affairs. If you do not believe this preference exists, provide evidence to the contrary. But please don’t try to educate me on the benefits of other accents and so on. My argument is Taiwan has a preference for North American English Teachers. Taiwanese prefere this and are responsible for their preference. I am not responsible for it merely because I mention it.
You missed the point of what I wrote. I am well aware that many other nationalities speak English. I am also aware of the benefits of learning to understand more than one accent. I am also aware that there are many accents in North America, some of which are not very desirable at all.
Still, my point was and is that there is a real preference for North American English in Taiwan. I don’t make this preference, the Taiwanese do. The sign on the door of most schools doesn’t advertise “ying yu,” it advertises “mei yu.” Big difference. I once asked some young students what language people spoke in the US and Canada. One kid answered “Americanese.” North American English speakers here are vastly prefered. That is de facto.
BTW, this does not reflect my personal view on who is suitable for teaching English. It is simply what I think to be the state of affairs. If you do not believe this preference exists, provide evidence to the contrary. But please don’t try to educate me on the benefits of other accents and so on. My argument is Taiwan has a preference for North American English Teachers. Taiwanese prefere this and are responsible for their preference. I am not responsible for it merely because I mention it.
What, like the English you mean 
:wanker:
Sure. Whatever. Like my father mother, sister and brother’s nationality. And also my second passport. But tell the Taiwanese that. When they think English, they think “Americanese.” That’s my only point.
Just a quibble: there IS a standard American accent. It’s called “Middle Ohio” or something like that. It is the preferred accent of US National News programs. It is the accent with the least regionalization.
This explains why some of the best and most highly paid presenters need not even be from the US (ie, ABCNews’s Peter Jennings). And what makes it amazing that one of the most powerful (and now embattled - but not for his accent) presenters is CBSNews’s Dan Rather, who is distinctive for his (mild) Texan drawl
If I ever find a source for that, I’ll come back and post it.
I’ve met a number of Americans here in Taiwan, and most have this standard American accent. Those who do not (in my mind) seem to gravitate toward it the longer they are here. That said, I’ve met even more people I thought were Americans, only to discover that they are actually from further North. Eh!
Ed is correct. There is a standard North American accent. If you speak in a regional American accent, particularly a Southern drawl but also an East Coast whaddaya lookin’ at, many people will automatically assume you’re stupid. Educated people in the U.S. and Canada are expected to speak in the standard accent for this reason, and most college graduates do. Speaking in a regional accent marks you as lower-class and parochial. I’m not saying I necessarily agree with this, I’m just saying that’s the way it is in America.