They're Stealing Christmas/Holiday tree or Christmas tree?

[quote]BOSTON (Reuters) - Boston set off a furor this week when it officially renamed a giant tree erected in a city park a “holiday tree” instead of a “Christmas tree.”

The move drew an angry response from Christian conservatives, including evangelist Jerry Falwell who heckled Boston officials and pressed the city to change the name back.

“There’s been a concerted effort to steal Christmas,” Falwell told Fox Television[/quote]

story here.

The sentiment seems right but…Falwell still comes off sounding like a nut.

And from the November 29, 2005 Washington Times…

Washington Times Story Here

The comment I liked most came from the Nova Scotia logger, eh?

“I’d have cut it down and put it through the chipper,” Donnie Hatt told a Canadian newspaper. “If they decide it should be a holiday tree, I’ll tell them to send it back. If it was a holiday tree, you might as well put it up at Easter.”

:bravo:

Every time I see “X’mas” I get a sinking feeling in my stomach…let’s take the Christ out of Christmas… :noway:

Well, since the Christians stole the whole thing from decent god-frearing pagans in the first place, I don’t think they’ve got too much to complain about.

Happy Yuletide everyone :laughing: :santa:

Actually, the “X” symbolizes the cross on which Christ was crucified, and as such, using the “X” isn’t really taking Christ out of Christmas.

Actually, the “X” symbolizes the cross on which Christ was crucified, and as such, using the “X” isn’t really taking Christ out of Christmas.[/quote]No it doesn’t, it’s the first letter of the Greek word for Christ - ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ. Xmas is still Christmas, just a lazy and disrespectful way to right it. And the apostrophe is only used in the Taiwanese spelling, in English speaking countries it’s Xmas or X-mas.

I can see no connection between Christ and a tree. I would imagine the tree comes from the old Saturnalia festival (That early Christians hijacked and turned into Christmas) celebrating the renewal of life, I can see where a tree would come into that. I’m not convinded that the tree is a relgious symbol anyway, so I’m not sure what he’s complaining about :idunno:

Actually, the “X” symbolizes the cross on which Christ was crucified, and as such, using the “X” isn’t really taking Christ out of Christmas.[/quote]No it doesn’t, it’s the first letter of the Greek word for Christ - ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ. Xmas is still Christmas, just a lazy and disrespectful way to right it. And the apostrophe is only used in the Taiwanese spelling, in English speaking countries it’s Xmas or X-mas.[/quote]

Well then, I stand corrected.

There’s two ways to look at it:

On the one hand, the renaming of the Christmas tree is stupid because it smacks of the politically correct silliness that’s been plaguing America for the last several years.

On the other hand, people like Falwell think Christmas is an exclusively Christian holiday. If that

Its not? Is it a Buddhist holiday? Moslem? Jewish?

Its not? Is it a Buddhist holiday? Moslem? Jewish?[/quote]Originally it was a Pagan festival. Many people who are not Christian celebrate it, the family gets together, put up a tree, swap presents (Originally a Roman tradition) etc… they don’t do anything Christian. They just call it Christmas.

Huh?

Christmas was never a pagan festival. Christmas is now celebrated at the same time of the year that a previously celebrated pagen festival was celebrated. But, Christmas is a Christian holiday that commemorates the birth of Christ. How could that possibly be a pagan festival?

Huh?

Christmas was never a pagan festival. Christmas is now celebrated at the same time of the year that a previously celebrated pagen festival was celebrated. But, Christmas is a Christian holiday that commemorates the birth of Christ. How could that possibly be a pagan festival?[/quote]

Does BFM mean that jumping around a tree was pagan?

That I can see. I still do it.

[quote=“Tigerman”]Christmas was never a pagan festival. Christmas is now celebrated at the same time of the year that a previously celebrated pagen festival was celebrated. But, Christmas is a Christian holiday that commemorates the birth of Christ. How could that possibly be a pagan festival?[/quote]Saturnalia was a pagan festival, held near the winter solstice to celebrate the return of the sun and stuff, long before the birth of Christ. The Christians “hijacked” it, either because they disaproved of the pagan festivals, or because they felt left out. Many things done at what people “Christmas” has nothing to do with the birth of Christ. People don’t celebrate the birth of Christ by putting up a tree or swapping presents. They go to church and sing carols. You could say there are 2 festivals merged together, a religious one and a secular one, but still called Christmas, including the secular parts.
If you think Christmas is purely for Christians, do you think non-Christians shouldn’t put up a tree and eat turkey ? Why ?
Do you think non-Christians shouldn’t call it Christmas ? Or maybe the parts that aren’t to do with Christ shouldn’t be called Christmas ?

Go read your bible then BFM. His cross was made from a tree.

The local catholic priest in my town once asked me what I though about the crucification of Jesus Christ…

First answer that popped into my head which I blurted out…

Waste of wood :blush: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Go read your bible then BFM. His cross was made from a tree.[/quote]That’s a pretty lame connection. Was it made out an evergreen tree ? Or is it an evergreen tree to symbolise the renewal of life ?
A wooden cross has everything to do with Christ, not a pine tree.
How about eating turkeys ? Sending cards ? The Queen’s Speech followed by old James Bond film ? What do they have to do with Christ ? Not everything at Christmas is to do with Christ.

origin-of-christmas.com/

[quote]The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery, as the priests of Saturn carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession throughout the Roman temples.

Variations of this pagan holiday flourished throughout the first few centuries after Jesus Christ, but it probably wasn’t until 336 AD that Emperor Constantine officially converted this pagan tradition into the “Christian” holiday of Christmas.[/quote]
Sounds like the essential elements of a good Christmas were all in place long ago :sunglasses:

“gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery” ? Seems we forgot about the downright debauchery, Bring back the downright debauchery ! We can’t let our traditions die :wink:

Sounds like your office Xmas parties were just as boring as mine … :frowning:

That’s correct. Saturnalia was a pagan festival. Christmas was not a pagan festival.

Or because it was helpful into getting pagans to convert to Christianity. However, Christmas was never a pagan holiday.

You could say anything. The secular-looking aspects of Christmas may have become, over the years, something celebrated by non-Christians. However, Christmas was never a pagan holiday. Moreover, although some non-Christians now celebrate the more secular appearing aspects of the Christmas celebration, that does not mean that Christmas is a non-Christian holiday. If I celebrate Chinese New Year, Chinese New Year does not become a Pittsburgh holiday.

I never said that. I said only that Christmas is a Christian holiday. The fact that non-Christians have taken to celebrating certain secular aspects of Christmas during the Christmas holiday does not result in Christmas no longer being a Christian holiday.

I’ve no feelings one way or the other about that. I think anyone who wants to put up a tree and decorate the same should be free to do so. Why should I care?

Again, I haven’t any feelings one way or the other about that.

I’m just saying that Christmas is a Christian holiday.

Just because I live in Taiwan doesn’t mean that Taiwan is part of the United States.

I’m not religious, but I celebrate Christmas.

But where I come from, Christmas has been banned and has been replaced by “Winterville” so as not to upset our ethnic friends.

No Christmas this year kids.

Tigerman if you really believe it is a Christian holiday then you should put it back in to July or August when Christ was born. It has been pointed out to everyone that the holiday we call Christmas is an amalgamation of several beliefs and traditions blending into the modern multi-faith holiday we have now. We even have started adding Kuanza and Chanukah elements into it.

Secular religion is a thing that has to evolve to fit the needs of the population it serves. If you don’t update your beliefs you end up being an outdated blowhard like Jerry Fallwell who keeps repeating the same thing over and over again.

So back on topic (remember the topic?): A holiday tree is more inclusive than an Xmas tree, but way to PC for my taste.