This article about Chinese workers in Japan makes me ill

=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/world/asia/15labor.html?pagewanted=2&ref=worldlink

It’s a nice article about how Japan both fears and needs Chinese labor, and probably will in the future. But, the Chinese make the Japanese SO uneasy. My mind is blown by tidbits like this:

[color=darkblue]The large presence of the Chinese workers has unsettled some Japanese here even as they have become increasingly dependent on them. Some vaguely mentioned the fear of crime, though they acknowledged that crime rates had not risen. No Japanese interviewed welcomed the idea of immigrants here or elsewhere in Japan.

“I feel a strange sense of oppression,” Toshimitsu Ide, 28, a lettuce farmer who had not hired any Chinese workers, said of seeing large groups of Chinese hanging around town. “They seem hard to approach.”

Perhaps because of the Japanese unease, the Chinese workers were given directives apparently aimed at curbing their movements, even before they arrived. They said they were told to go home by 8 p.m. and not to ride bicycles except for work. Some even said they had been instructed not to talk to young Japanese women.[/color]

Okay, so that completely disgusts me. Are the Japanese this bad?
How would any of you feel if the labor board here in Taiwan forbid us from riding bicycles? Or gave us a curfew or “instructed” us not to talk to young women.
What kind of country is that?

I’m just.

:fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume:

[quote=“trebuchet”][url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/world/asia/15labor.html?pagewanted=2&ref=world[/url]link

It’s a nice article about how Japan both fears and needs Chinese labor, and probably will in the future. But, the Chinese make the Japanese SO uneasy. My mind is blown by tidbits like this:

most foreign workers in Taiwan have to live under far more onerous conditions than that. that’s easy… try being a Philippine construction labourer or whatever here.

You should see what they do with them here in China :laughing:

And yes…the Japanese are that bad.

One of the best-known documents of Japan’s anti-immigrant sentiment is Gaijin Hanzai Ura Fairu (Foreigner Underground Crime File). Fortunately, though, that was widely condemned even in Japan.

Can’t say I’ve ever been a Philippino construction worker in Taiwan, but they seem pretty happy to me. At least the ones I’ve met. Sure beats being a Philippino worker of any sort in the Philippines, I geuss, otherwise they’d be there, not here.

Besides which, last time I looked they were at least allowed to speak to Taiwanese girls (although the Taiwanese girls don’t seem to interested in speaking to them, nor half the male Taiwanese population, which explains all the foreign brides from SE Asia). And they do let them out on Sundays, yeah?

Asian xenophobia and racism? No way. :unamused:

Mexican laborers in california end up making much more then the average joe doing construction and end up buying houses and having their kids in school free , all while still illegal.

Many south east Asian home makers are not even allowed to leave the house alone. I’ve met about 5 different grils and 3 families that all confirmed this. A friend told me that if the girl “runs away” the family may have to pay a hefty fine and can not have another foreign worker. Terrible conditions.

I doubt that very much.

[quote]tommy525 wrote:
Mexican laborers in california end up making much more then the average joe doing construction and end up buying houses and having their kids in school free , all while still illegal.

I doubt that very much.[/quote]

I find it very believable, as I’ve known illegals who managed to own their own place. It usually involves very long hours but it certainly happens. The free school part is mandated, so that’s not an issue, and illegals actually can make a decent wage if they’ve got marketable skills. In Dallas 10 years ago I remember seeing construction companies paying better than $10/hr +OT for completely inexperienced labor, practically no questions asked about status. Now figure in experience, maybe learning a trade, inflation, and the fact that SoCal has much higher wages, and I find it completely plausible that some illegal immigrants are making above the national average.

Anyway, the “it’s better than your home was” argument is always used by people who want to justify treating people as second-class citizens.

Uh, can you back that highly dubious assertion up with any facts, tommy525? My facts show exactly the opposite to be true; among laborers, Hispanic whites (Latinos) earn significantly less in agriculture, less in construction, and less overall than other ethnicities (not just less than non-Hispanic whites):

First of all, [color=blue]the average legal minimum wage for farm workers in California, where large numbers of the Mexican immigrants work, is $7.27 an hour. [/color]That’s not the average wage, just the average legal requirement. url=http://www.ccis-ucsd.org/PUBLICATIONS/wrkg37.PDF[/url]

The average unskilled immigrant labor is unlikely to make more than minimum, and some of course make less. Now, let’s compare that to construction wages for typical Americans. [color=red]The hourly average for union construction in the US for everyone was $38.48 in 2005. [/color] Those figures aren’t by ethnicity, but my perception is that you’ll find a lot more WASPs in construction and a lot more Mexican laborers in California in agriculture.

Second, even if just looking just at construction jobs and comparing by ethnicity, acc. to Hispanic and Non-Hispanic Wage Differentials: Implications for United States Construction Industry, J. Constr. Engrg. and Mgmt., Volume 130, Issue 4, pp. 552-559 (July/August 2004), by Prof. Paul M. Goodrum, in construction, “Hispanic workers earn less than their non-Hispanic counterparts controlling for experience, occupation, schooling, and geographical location.” I didn’t find figures on the discrepancy in dollars for this industry, but across industries, in 2Q 2007, the average American worker made $690/week, but Hispanic workers got only $503 (even less than African-American workers, who made $562). (source: newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=455418) That’s not just illegals, or even immigrants. Just those of Hispanic ethnicity, whose average is sure to be higher than Hispanic legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. Overall, there’s a 27% discrepancy in favor of the non-Hispanics, and if you look at just Mexican immigrants (rather than Hispanics in general) the gap should be higher.

In an article by S.J. Trephon, Ph.D., in California, “in 1989, Mexican-origin households earned on average 33 percent less than non-Hispanic white households, 30 percent less than Asian households, and 6 percent less than black households.” Again, that’s not necessarily 1st-generation immigrants or illegals, as it also includes American-born citizens of Mexican ancestry such as myself, and we tend to earn a lot more than the 1st-gen. immigrants and the illegals.

But it’s well documented that most Mexican immigrants are at a disadvantage in marketable skills.

But that doesn’t really compare to the US union average of $38.48 in 2005 that I cite above.

A few anecdotes of successful immigrants simply aren’t going to outweigh documented facts on wages and poverty level.

some foreign labourers here have OK conditions, while some live locked up in shitty steel boxes and are overworked, underfed, and unfairly treated. must be a problem with all foreign contract labour importation schemes, when the wages on offer are lower than the local norm, whether in Japan, Taiwan, or Dubai. even the USA. but at least in some USA states, like California, the illegal immigrants do constitute a large minority, and have more benefits.

australia is debating the formation of a similar scheme and they are also caught up in the civil rights/ border security/ unfair wages debate at the moment, though it seems to be working well enough for pacific Islanders on a similar scheme in NZ.

Dragonbones, you’re arguing against something I didn’t say.

The assertion was that some illegal immigrants manage to own their own homes and make better money than the “average American,” if they have marketable skills and work long hours. That’s it. Frankly, your union average is irrelevant as I was simply saying that’s what someone in a relatively low wage area (wages in Dallas are lower than in L.A.) with absolutely no experience & skill could make at the time. Obviously the union average is higher.

I know I gave anecdotal evidence but I was simply arguing that it happens and is plausible, not that it’s a majority.

amen

[quote=“redandy”]Dragonbones, you’re arguing against something I didn’t say.

The assertion was that some illegal immigrants manage to own their own homes and make better money than the “average American,” if they have marketable skills and work long hours. That’s it. Frankly, your union average is irrelevant as I was simply saying that’s what someone in a relatively low wage area (wages in Dallas are lower than in L.A.) with absolutely no experience & skill could make at the time. Obviously the union average is higher.

I know I gave anecdotal evidence but I was simply arguing that it happens and is plausible, not that it’s a majority.[/quote]
No. That was not the assertion. the assertion was:

There was no some in there. I would think that the some would be a very small percentage.

But it is true that they kill white babies to use their blood in their hispanic rituals. That’s true.

What Doc said. Tommy said “Mexican laborers in california end up making much more then the average joe doing construction”. That is a blanket generalization, not a subset, and I argued against the generalization. Of course there are always exceptions. :wink:

Or you could try reading what I said if you’re going to respond to me. I clearly said some and even italicized it. :wink: :wink:

I’m primarily responding to tommy525. :wink: