Thoughts on teaching in Taiwan and elsewhere

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
#1

Life is a one way street for most places of employment in Taiwan by the sound of it. They expect loyalty but won’t give any in return.

I’ve only worked in one school since I’ve been here. I’m British and in the UK it’s impossible to get sacked except for gross misconduct - i.e. if you hit someone or steal from the organisation. In my last job I was paid on the 18th of the current month, for instance the May pay run was processed on the 18th of May and there were never any errors. Highly professional and highly motivational, knowing that the employer trusted me to work for two weeks a month having already been paid for it. I think that’s fair - you work for two weeks and trust them to pay what’s owed and they trust you to work the second half a month.

I spent three years travelling the world and worked illegally for months each in Australia, Canada, NZ and America. It was getting me down by the end doing shit cash in hand jobs and having no rights.

Come to Taiwan, get married and guess what? I feel exactly the same.

My contract has a $42,000 early breach fee, $100 fine for every time I clock in late or forget to clock out (it happened once in eight months and I was spewing on account of the hours a day the school gets for free when I work lunch). Five times out of eight they have “forgotten” to add on my overtime/subs/bonuses and forced me to ask for money that is rightfully mine. I think they do it on purpose.

Also I had to work a week for free at the start and I get paid two weeks after the end of the month. It took seven weeks of working before I saw any money.

I heard from the head teacher that common practice at Chinese new year is to only pay the teachers half of their salary for the previous month until they return for the next semester.

Clearly, if you don’t work you don’t get paid. Which means that the contract serves only one purpose - to protect the school if you leave early. There is no point having the contract from my point of view. If I don’t work, I don’t get the $60k the contract “guarantees” and if the school want to sack me they will.

Sadly, I think every school is probably the same… they think they are doing you a favour by letting you work there, and Chinese motivation appears to be to make you think you’re doing a crap job to make you work harder. The principal has said one positive thing to me in the whole time I’ve been there. I told her to wait for me to get a tape recorder.

#2

And you people tolerate this shit?

News Bulletin:

All airports have flights leaving the island.

#3

You’ve got to consider your options. Despite poor treatment, if I do what I’m told like a good little boy then I have more money in my hand after living expenses than I had in the UK (not in any small way affected by the size of my weekly fuel bills, $150 a week here, $2500 a week there).

Employers here are a bit shit but at least I don’t have the feeling of coppers watching my every move when I get behind the wheel, the worry of my neighbours grassing me to the pigs if I ride my motorcycle down the street with no helmet on, minimum 24% income tax, 17.5% VAT, petrol $90NT a litre, road tax $10,000NT a year, the constant droaning on about “terrorists” and “freedom” in the media to justify invasions of other countries.

My wife is a flight attendant, she earns the same as me. The cost of housing here is TINY compared to even rural UK. If we move there she’ll be treated as second class, we can’t afford to buy a house or run a car bigger then 1400cc, we’ll have hardly any disposable income, seasonal depression nine months of the year due to crap weather, kid growing up in constant fear of pretty much anything except going to work, obeying the rules and paying her taxes. No thanks.

So yes my school is a cowboy organisation, they claim to pay tax on my behalf which I don’t believe they actually do, they fuck up my pay most months but I’m still in a better position than I would be in the west.

There are a lot of shit things about being in Taiwan but I think most people stay because to a large extent we are free here to think, do, say what we want. Live with the consequences if you fuck up, but there are no consequences if you don’t.

#4

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]And you people tolerate this shit?

News Bulletin:

All airports have flights leaving the island.[/quote]
Define “you people.” I don’t think the solution is necessarily leaving Taiwan; the OP might just find a better job.

I’ve experienced similar BS to that of the OP, but nothing quite as bad. Certainly there are better positions available.

#5

It’s wise to remember the inherent value of the trade-off, and to prepare flankers for a counter-offensive gouging…

#6

[quote=“jaame”]
My wife is a flight attendant, she earns the same as me. The cost of housing here is TINY compared to even rural UK. If we move there she’ll be treated as second class, we can’t afford to buy a house or run a car bigger then 1400cc, we’ll have hardly any disposable income, seasonal depression nine months of the year due to crap weather, kid growing up in constant fear of pretty much anything except going to work, obeying the rules and paying her taxes. No thanks.

There are a lot of shit things about being in Taiwan but I think most people stay because to a large extent we are free here to think, do, say what we want. Live with the consequences if you fuck up, but there are no consequences if you don’t.[/quote]

You know, you are so right. I wasn’t crazy about Taiwan and was anxious to get out and move to a totally different country, which I did, but I would have happily stayed in Taiwan rather than move to the UK or US or anywhere else in the West for that matter.

Now I’m in the Middle East, and to be honest with you, my husband and I sometimes really miss the freedoms we felt in Taiwan. We lived in the south of Taiwan where there was a bit of a “Wild West” feeling. Sometimes that really got to me…the crap driving, beetlenuts, and hickish behavior…but the freedom we felt was unmatchable to anywhere else we have ever lived.

Every time I go back to the US or UK, which is about once a year to both places now, I become even more grateful to be living overseas and to not be a part of the systems at home. I find the west depressing, quite frankly, and I can’t imagine ever living there again. I really hate those mandatory visits and get anxious to leave once I’m there.

Besides, the rest of the world is so much more fun!! :smiley:

#7

[quote=“Indiana”][quote=“jaame”]
My wife is a flight attendant, she earns the same as me. The cost of housing here is TINY compared to even rural UK. If we move there she’ll be treated as second class, we can’t afford to buy a house or run a car bigger then 1400cc, we’ll have hardly any disposable income, seasonal depression nine months of the year due to crap weather, kid growing up in constant fear of pretty much anything except going to work, obeying the rules and paying her taxes. No thanks.

There are a lot of shit things about being in Taiwan but I think most people stay because to a large extent we are free here to think, do, say what we want. Live with the consequences if you fuck up, but there are no consequences if you don’t.[/quote]

You know, you are so right. I wasn’t crazy about Taiwan and was anxious to get out and move to a totally different country, which I did, but I would have happily stayed in Taiwan rather than move to the UK or US or anywhere else in the West for that matter.

Now I’m in the Middle East, and to be honest with you, my husband and I sometimes really miss the freedoms we felt in Taiwan. We lived in the south of Taiwan where there was a bit of a “Wild West” feeling. Sometimes that really got to me…the crap driving, beetlenuts, and hickish behavior…but the freedom we felt was unmatchable to anywhere else we have ever lived.

Every time I go back to the US or UK, which is about once a year to both places now, I become even more grateful to be living overseas and to not be a part of the systems at home. I find the west depressing, quite frankly, and I can’t imagine ever living there again. I really hate those mandatory visits and get anxious to leave once I’m there.

Besides, the rest of the world is so much more fun!! :smiley:[/quote]

Indiana…I’m from there…and Pingtung feels just as hickish as there ^^

#8

[quote=“craya”]

Indiana…I’m from there…and Pingdong feels just as hickish as there ^^[/quote]

Yeah, Pingdung is where I lived. What a place, huh? :slight_smile:

#9

I share most of the feelings as the OP and have experienced most of those issues. Management practices here are so disrespectful and abusive of the employee. Unfortunately, going back to the US would mean giving up a 6 year relationship that I’d rather not give up.

The pay things you mentioned, like keeping a deposit and penalties are illegal. They may not even know better, and if they do, they count on fresh meat who probably doesn’t know better, either. You have the option to contact the CLA.

I’ve concluded the best solution for me is to work for an organization under Western management.

#10

Sir living in Taipei is indeed cheaper than living in a city in the United Kingdom. Many of the contractual obligations you have undertaken are possibly surmountable if you wish to indeed surmount them AND remain with your employer.

Do NOT accept any sort of smack from your employer.

By which I mean:
Paying a deposit
Working for free
Paying a deposit
Working for free
Paying a deposit
Working for free

This has been a labour warning on behalf of your home country.

#11

I agree with Mike.

The more of us that don’t accept such unreasonable, illegal work conditions and go somewhere else, the less likely they will continue. The trouble is most people new to teaching in Taiwan probably haven’t done their homework, like I didn’t when I first came here, and don’t know any better.

I’ve learned my lesson. I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!

#12

Yes, ultimately, we can effect change (albeit very, very slowly) if we don’t tolerate any nonsense.

There’s another thread here somewhere at forumosa where I detailed how I beat Hess Evil Organization in a staring contest by getting the CLA involved and stringing Hess out like they strung me out. If enough people do that kind of thing, then change does happen.

Teaching styles and ideologies in this country are twenty or thirty years behind where they’re at in the West, but that will have to change sooner or later. Perhaps it will require a generational change, or perhaps they will slowly start to realise that certain things simply aren’t working for them. Slowly but surely, it will happen. We’re the front line troops in this battle. It gets me down at times and certainly frustrates me, but we have to stay positive.

As many have pointed out, the lifestyle here, both in terms of the cost of living and personal freedoms on a daily basis are so much better than back home (Australia for me). It’s amazing how we’re fed this line that we have it the best in the world (and Australia certainly is better than most places), but that it’s so much better for me over here. I enjoy a better lifestyle AND save a lot more money, and I don’t have government micro-managing my every move and stealing great chunks of anything I earn (supposedly for my own good, but then providing me with piss-poor services at a high cost) for my right to simply exist. I have no intention of going back to Australia for anything but a visit to relatives and friends. As much as I may complain about Taiwan and Taiwanese at times, I know which side my bread is buttered on.

#13

In regard to your comment about no positive feedback, you’re more or less accurate with that. Don’t expect warm fuzzies here. I never hear “hey, Dave, great job with that parent day demo!” or “Thanks for not being late for work for the past 3 years straight.” I’ve been at my Kindergarten an astonishing 3+ years and to this day I have no idea what they think of my performance. I guess I’m doing OK, as they keep renewing me. Quite frankly, many bosses here don’t have the English-speaking ability to handle a kudo or they fear it might be seen as a sign of weakness. Who knows? Anyway, keep a mercenary attitude and keep repeating the mantra of sanity “I’m here for the money, I’m here for the money…” Of course if the money sucks then, you really maybe ought to re-locate.
In regards to your comment about pay days: I’m really lucky that I hooked up with one of the very few schools in Taiwan that pay bi-weekly, not monthly. That’s the system Americans and Canadians are used to and I’ll give my boss credit for doing that for us. But, yes, most schools pay monthly. I have 2 part-time employers. One pays monthly like most, the other is cool and pays me every Saturday, if I ask for it, otherwise every 2 weeks. About the Chinese New Year, being paid only half-pay: I’ve never experienced that at any job here and I’ve been here 4 years. I think that, if true, that must be a rare exception. Most schools give teachers a humpau(mispelled translation, but phonetically correct) bonus for good luck…it varies from 1000 nt to whatever the boss feels like paying. At my Kindy, though, foreign teachers don’t get a humpau. We get chocolate-covered fish candy, fake coins or some disgusting slimy drink they bought at the local 800cc shop. They figure that they pay us good money all year and every 2 weeks so they owe us nothing. On the other hand, they DO pay the Chinese co-teachers a handsome 20,000 humpau each CNY. Of course I realize they probably get shit pay all year, so its a kind of atonement. I’m not whining. Just making an observation. Now I DID get a red envelope last CNY. The boss handed it to me and said “Happy New Year” in Chinese, and I got all excitied 'cuz I thought ‘finally we get a bonus.’ Then I opened it up and there was a 10 nt coin inside. I started to shake my head and my co-worker walked by and said “That’s not the worst part of it…that 10 nt coin isn’t real. It’s chocolate wrapped in silver foil!” D’oh!
Overall, i like it here because the cost of living is moderately low and the location is ideal as a jump-off point to other exotic locations. BKK, SG, HK, Manila and Macau are all just a few hours flying time and the tickets inexpensive. There’s all the pooter I can stand and if I get tired of the local gals (whom I don’t find particularly beautiful compared to, say Thai’s or Filipina’s), there’s 400,000 foreign asians working here who are better looking and have better personalities, besides. Taiwan is the right choice for me, until I eventually get burned out.

#14

Ha and Im supposed to be the houndog? We got us a real one here folks :slight_smile:

#15

This is actually the best thing to do. This is pretty much how I lived in Bangkok for more than three years, and by the end I was actually earning more money in Thailand (for less hours) than I earn now in Taiwan.

Unfortunately, there is definitely more risk involved in doing the same in Taiwan. The cost of living is higher, border runs are more expensive, and immigration police seem more likely to enforce the rules than in Thailand. That said, there’s an excellent chance I’ll be returning to Thailand very, very soon.

The visa/ARC rules here are designed to enslave foreign teachers and keep them bound to one employer. If they allowed you to work for multiple schools/companies, they realize that bosses would have no power over you.

#16

[quote=“lotusblossom”]
Stop making excuses and rationalisations. You’re the perennial complainer, so either get another job, get an APRC, or get back to the Land of a 1,000 Smiles. Or why not look in Vietnam for work? I’d be on the first plane out of here if I didn’t have my APRC, which gives me a lot more freedom to move and give lying employers the middle finger. Things are going from bad to dreadful and Taiwan’s days are numbered. The Mainland Chinese siege tactics are now paying off.[/quote]
Well, my feelings about living in Taiwan change from day to day. Sometimes I absolutely hate the place and everything about it; other days it’s not so bad.

Vietnam is an intriguing option. I’ve heard you can earn about US$2,000 a month there. Unfortunately, I need a bit more stability in my life until next summer; I’m in the process of completing my BS through distance learning, so I need a steady schedule and stable income until then.

#17

I looked at Vietnam a few years ago after hearing that the teaching life was fairly lucrative. What I found was it is possible to earn decent money, but you need to have 4-5 jobs, working 6 days a week with lots of running about town (at least in Hanoi where I looked). Also, there was a lot less checking of documents for visas, so many of the teachers were using Khao Sanh Rd credentials to meet the requirements for work visas. Working in Vietnam means competing with these people for jobs. All of it was enough to make me book a flight to Taiwan where life and work treats me very well indeed.

Things in Vietnam may have changed in the past few years though, or may be different in other parts of the country.

#18

[quote=“cfimages”]
Things in Vietnam may have changed in the past few years though, or may be different in other parts of the country.[/quote]
You’re probably correct about all the Khao San Road docs. I don’t know about working at six different schools, though. I had a friend who worked in Hanoi back in 2004 - he said he earned $15 an hour, which is not much lower than the normal wage here.

Since the cost of living is so much lower there (he paid $150 a month for his apartment), you wouldn’t need to work much in order to get by.

#19

[quote=“lotusblossom”]
You speak as though you can ONLY find stability with your current employment. You CAN find stability eslewhere. You just need to look for it. [/quote]
I agree with you. I’ve been looking around for other jobs since I started working at my current job. I honestly didn’t find anything that seemed better than what I have now - while the pay may have been higher in some, most schools wanted a lot more “free” work out of you.

Going back to Thailand actually isn’t as simple as it sounds either, since they’ve been tightening up the visa rules in the last year or two. I have an AA and a CELTA, which allows me to legally work in Taiwan but not in Thailand.

My original goal in coming to Taiwan was simply to find a place to hang out for 18 months while I finished up my BS. The biggest draw of Taiwan was that I could work legally on my current qualifications and not have to worry about visa runs anymore. I now see that the hassle of visa runs is rather small compared to the generally terrible working conditions of Taiwan. Still, I committed to a year and I have no problem seeing my contract through to December.

#20

If you agree with me, why are you still suffering in the same job? Why not move? You can. People are worried about the economy, but there are still jobs out there. Let me relay a little story to you. My gorgeous Taiwanese girlfriend is resigning from her job today. Last night she called me and told me that she’d packed up all the things from her table and was ready to depart today. Why? Well, we plan a holiday together in Thailand in November, but her boss said it wouldn’t be convenient because it was a busy month. However, my girlfriend has done all her work and is up to date, and any additional work can be done upon her return. Further she’s taking leave without pay, so the company isn’t out of pocket. So what goes on here? The issue really is one of power and control. The boss has issued an order and all employees must follow, no matter how irrational that order is. Actually, November is no busier than any other month, but the sad and unfortunate boss is jealous that my girlfriend is taking a holiday, while she has to sit around in her lonely office, accompanied only by a plastic figurine that sits alone on her desk. So the REAL issue is envy and jealousy and the need to control another person’s happiness by making up an excuse as to why they have to be in the office during November. Anyway, my girlfriend has seen through all the bullshit and told the boss that, while she(the boss) has her opinion, she(my g/f) is entitled to hers. So, without further ado, she packed up her stuff and is now looking for another “stable job”, which of course she’ll find upon her return from the Land of 1,000 Smiles. And this is why I love my g/f dearly: She’s not just a pretty face, but is also pretty smart and can see through all the miserable posturing. What a babe, huh? Hope all you forumosan fellows can find such a dame.