People should need a license to carry rocks, if you ask me. :raspberry:
MT, I agree. But the topic is not dogs that attack, but of people who attack non-aggressive dogs. As you said, this is clearly wrong and inhumane, and will only exacerbate the problem - a common occurence when people are faced with dog-behaviour problems.
Those of you who suggested acting threateningly have the best idea, though more calm and assertive than crazy and aggressive would create a better outcome for all. Using any kind of force on an already aggressive animal will almost certainly make it more aggressive - I know this from much personal experience, from breaking up violent dog fights to wrangling a fearful and aggressive dog. Be calm and assertive, and the dog will become like putty in your hands. Throw rocks at an aggressive dog, and you are more likely to get hurt. It’s the ones who are no threat to you who will back away.
Now we have a dedicated team working on our website, I think this would be an excellent subject for an educational article, and I’ll suggest it ASAP.
I get pissed off with some of the people in and around my building who make such a big deal when I am walking the dog. He’s on a leash and sitting in the lift, and they refuse to get in or when walking the sidewalks around they Gasp or shriek to avoid him.
One classic time I was in the carpark downstairs getting ready to go scootering with Jack, and some stupid woman started literally jumping up and down and squealing with her hand cupped to her mouth. It was so bizarre, like it was something out of a B grade horror or something.
Of course ANY dog would react to such behavior and think it is a game, so he decided to yank the lead of me go ‘play’ with her. I thought she was going to have a breakdown by the time I retrieved him back.
Her boyfriend was standing right there, looking embarassed and all he could say was “Nice dog you got there”
I don’t quite get what you are saying, but it sounds like you deliberately let your dog approach a women who was visibly frightened of it. Is this true?
I don’t quite get what you are saying, but it sounds like you deliberately let your dog approach a women who was visibly frightened of it. Is this true?[/quote]
No. I was preparing the scooter to go out so I was holding the leash etc. He was sitting down anyway, so was behaving.
When this woman got excited, he perked up and decided all the noise and jumping was a call to ‘play’. So while I was busy packing the scoot or whatever, he yanked the leash and walked over to her. He didn’t jump up or snarl or bite or anything.
I ran over there and was calling him, but the crazy women was drowning me out, so he wasn’t responding. I finally got to the leash and pulled him away, still no contact, but she seemed like she was about to pass out. The boyfirend was rolling his eyes at her.
The point is, if she’d been quiet and civil about it, he wouldn’t even have given a sniff in her direction.
I suspect she does it all the time, and then (what-do-you-know) dogs “attack” her, which of course justifies why she needs to make the performance in the first place
I don’t quite get what you are saying, but it sounds like you deliberately let your dog approach a women who was visibly frightened of it. Is this true?[/quote]
MM, Truant’s a nice guy, and he wouldn’t do that. Furthermore, Jack’s a very cute pup, not at all threatening – although he can be a bit excited sometimes. The woman’s reaction was obviously OTT… perhaps she has a dog phobia though.
Excellent point. As usual, it’s the human’s wrong behaviour that induces the dog’s unwanted behaviour. :bravo:
I showed the kids in my community that when I run around screaming, the dogs chase me, and when I stay calm and motionless, they do nothing. It really brought home to them the facts that (a) the dog reacts to the way they behave and (b) foreigners look even weirder when they run around screaming.
If your clothes catch on fire and you panic and run around in circles, because you’re scared, thereby fanning the flames and making the situation worse, it’s still the fire that is primarily responsible for any burns you might suffer. Educating people not to run when they’re on fire, but to lie down and smother the flames is good. But it’s wrong to say the burns are caused by the terrified person running around; the burns are caused by the fire.
Likewise if a dog were to bite some frightened person jumping around excitedly. Educating non-dog owners is good, but the dog owner bears primary responsibility for restraining his/her dog.
Exactly MT. Furtermore, some normal activities, such as jogging, can seem threatening to a dog. When I was back in Canada last year, I had dogs jump and rush and snap at me so many times when I was out running. Now these were public places I was in and the dogs were supposed to be on leashes. But, like bikerchic, people thought it was a nice area (wooded) to let the dogs be free. The result was I had to change my jogging route to avoid the danger of coming round a bend and meeting up with a startled dog off leash, and then the inevitable confrontation with idiotic dog owners who thought there was nothing wrong.
My behavior was normal human activity. Yes, it provoked the bad dog behavior but too bad. My rights trump the dogs every time. Restrain your dog when strangers are around and respect the LAWS.
I think there has to be a middle ground for this debate. Surely it would be nice to let your dog run a bit since that’s what dogs like to do and surely people should be able to walk about without being threatened by someone else’s dog. I think it basically depends on the dog, how it behaves and how well trained it is. This said, I think proper training is the key.
I walk many dogs lately. Always in a great big park next to a veterinary hospital. Only one of the dogs can be off the leash as he is no threat to anyone. He responds well and if I see that someone is bothered by his presence, I call him and he comes immediately. It doesn’t matter what his stimuli is at the time, the sound of my voice is always what he will respond to like if his life depended on it. Often kids are scared of him when they see him coming so I just call him back and keep his attention away from the people who are scared of him. Other dogs aren’t that obedient and they just can’t be let off the leash out of respect for others even though these dogs would never hurt a fly. If they do not respond well to my commands, they have to be on the leash, period.
I’m not sure that makes sense to all involved here but I think it’s a good ground to keep everyone feeling safe and respected. Like MM said, it’s important to restrain your dog when strangers are around but proper training is better than a leash IMO.
I think that if you take your dog outside, it should be on a leash. Even in the park. And if you really hate that, let it loose but put a muzzle on. You really are dealing with an animal…as close as you get to your dog…they can be unpredictable.
I know i’m just repeating myself and after this i’ll stop, but we are all animals and we are all unpredictible, so can we please put muzzles on some of the more annoying people and kids please. I am truely offended by the comments, screams and jumping up and down done by humans. I really don’t care if you think i’m being silly. i know my dogs are nice, calm and freindly dogs and i and them have just as much right to walk around as any of the people do.
The point is if people didn’t dump dogs and trained the ones they own properly there wouldn’t be a problem. Again it is the problem of the people, but the poor dogs get the sticks and bricks thrown at them.
This topic has been done to death, lets just agree to disagree, i will leash my dogs in the park when there is a law requiring children to be muzzled and leashed too.
There IS a law that dogs should be leashed in parks. There’s none for kids. So your best bet is probably to lobby your MP or legislator or whatever. Good luck with that in ANY country in the world.
As it stands, if your dogs come near my kids in such a way that frightens them, I’ll remove my kids, put 'em in the car, and come back and kick your arse for being so bloody inconsiderate.
Your dogs, though, will get some Animals Taiwan cookies – it’s not their fault.
but many loving family dogs attack without warning. I just think about it like this…leash my dog, or live with the idea that some person might be hurt and my dog be shot.
[quote=“Battery9”]I think that if you take your dog outside, it should be on a leash. Even in the park. And if you really hate that, let it loose but put a muzzle on. You really are dealing with an animal…as close as you get to your dog…they can be unpredictable.[/quote]I disagree. If a dog is looked after properly and trained well, it’s no threat to anyone unless you or the dog itself is being attacked in which case you’d be happy to have your dog with you and off the leash. Some dogs are difficult to train though and I would agree with you in many cases.
I remember when I was a kid we used to visit friends who lived on a farm. They had two of the biggest dogs. I can’t remember the breed but they are the massive white dogs with long curly fur and floppy ears. We use to ride these dogs. A kid could literally hang on to the dog’s ears, tail, fur and the dogs would never even stop wagging tails.
Dogs only attack when they feel threatened and loving dogs aren’t threatened by people, they love people. I find you are under-estimating the qualities for which dogs are considered man’s best friend. Too bad man isn’t dog’s best friend…
if your kids come near my dogs in such a way that frightens them, I’ll remove my dogs , put 'em in the car, and come back and kick your arse for being so bloody inconsiderate.
Your kids, though, will get some people cookies – it’s not their fault.
The problem bob, as I’m sure you know, is that when I see a dog I don’t know, can’t tell, if it has been well-trained or not. And like I said, dogs off-leash are often a menace to joggers. One day two years ago I was jogging down a trail in Canada when I saw a woman with two massive great danes approaching. they were off-leash and I stopped to indicate that I was not comfortable and wanted the owner at the very least call her dogs close to her. She did nothing and the dogs ran up and stood in front and back of me. They were huge creatures and though they were not acting aggressive I was quite nervous. I yelled at the woman to call them back. She laughed, yes, laughed, and said they were fine and I should just walk around them. No fucking way, I shouted out. Call them back. The woman just laughed again as she past me. The dogs did not move or let me go until she was at least 50 yards past.
So was I supposed to trust this woman that her dogs were fine? This is the issue here. Trusting strangers. As I habit I don’t do it, but according to Ukbikerchic I should.
The dogs that surrounded me were very well trained from the looks of it. Didn’t help me feeling really intimidated by having their jaws in my face.
Now consider that to a little kid, a normal size dog looms large like a great dane to me. So, your attitude is exactly like that woman’s. The problem is the kids if they don’t like your dog running up to them. Who cares if they are shaking in their boots. Your dogs are friendly. They should just get used to it.
Years ago with an ex, walking her big dopie German Shepherd in a park, the incredibly docile, well trained and loved mongrel suddenly took off at full clip towards some poor little toddler taking its first innocent stumbles. Fortunately, and at the time unbelievably, it stopped short of the kid, perhaps in response to our screeching, which had risen to panic levels.
I swear if the parents of that kid had’ve been able to recover in time to kick that mutt to death in front of me, I would have let them. Likewise if any dog transcends the simple code of failing to cohabit with humans in a civil manner, it should pay. End of chat.
Years later the same ex’s other dog, a Russel Terrior, adopted the fatal habit of nipping kids when the ex was 8 months pregnant. The dog, despite being a treasured pet for 8 odd years, paid for its folly with it’s life.
Any dog comes snarling around me will be kicked. If it bites a kid near me it will die.
I think there is a path through all these posts that we could take whereby everyone would agree: We all agree that some dogs can be frightening. We all agree that throwing stones at dogs who are minding their own business is wrong. If you saw ukbikerchic’s dogs, you would understand why they really would not intimidate anyone. If you were attacked by a dog, you would be within your rights to defend yourself in any way you see fit, but wiser to be calm and assertive. If a dog bothers you, the owner absolutely should remove the dog from your vicinity. In a perfect world, where dogs were not abandoned and all were well trained, they should be able to run free.
For the record, I walk my dogs on leash then let them run off leash once we get to a safe place away from a road. However, my dogs can look intimidating (I guess), and they do like to run up and introduce themselves to people, so I choose times and places where people aren’t around. If there are only a few people, I ask if I can take my dogs off their leashes. Sometimes, however, there are people that I don’t see (a couple snogging in the darkness), but as I’m always watching my dogs, I see when they spot the people before I do. I first off all tell the people in Chinese that the dogs don’t bite but might try to kiss them, then I call the dogs back, which they do.
The funny thing I notice frequently is the number of people who look absolutely terrified when they see me walking three, four, or five dogs towards them and start to behave in a state of utter panic, but as soon as I tell them the dogs don’t bite, they kind of go, “Oh, well that’s alright then” and calmly walk past - their fear, it seems, isn’t of dogs per se, but of being bitten.
Anyway, let’s just hope sandman’s kids, once they are born, don’t meet ukbikerchic’s dogs in a dark alley. I wouldn’t want to see these two Forumosans throwing stones at each other.
I know UKbikerchic’s dogs and they are sweet and completely non-threatening. 100% So perhaps she is speaking of her behavior with them knowing them as she does. I have four dogs. Three are left to run freely in the park. I try to go when not too many people are arond, and this is the Ching Mei River Park btw. Very big and open. One of my dogs is kept on the leash all the time because she’s isn’t obedient at all. But I watch the other three vigilantly and they are put back on the leash if I spot kids. That is because the kids are unpredictable. I pretty much know how the dogs will react. If they are threatened, they will bite, and with so many, the pack mentality thing comes into play. Incidently, I also call them back for joggers because joggers do freak them out. A running adult will get their backs up and they go into defensive mode. This is especially bad if I am sitting down. Don’t get me wrong. My dogs are not aggressive and they like people including children. And people often comment on how good they are. But I have to be responsible for them.
But if I had kids, I’d teach them about how to safely behave around a dog, like my father taught me. That is in the child’s best interest. An arse kicking will not re-attach a child’s face. So if you have kids, please be responsible, too.
I’d like to continue that chat if I may. If my dog ran down a toddler and bit the child, that would be a tragedy, and everything must be done to protect the kid. But is it the dog’s fault? As an owner, you are responsible. You didn’t train the dog adequately. You let it off the leash. You should suffer the consequences, not the dog. Yet you would watch someone kick your dog to death for your own folly? That would just create a double tragedy, if you ask me.
I would put my dog in a place where it could never attack anybody again, and I would take the blame for the incident and try my best to make amends, if that is even possible for a mauled child. There is no need for a dog to die because of my own inadequate training. That whole revenge thing just doesn’t work for me, be it humans or animals that commited the crime. Take them out of society because they are a danger, but don’t kill them for being the result of poor upbringing or mental health.
