Tibet- the best way forward

Tibet is in the news again after the 50th anniversary of rebellion to Chinese rule in 1959.
The Dalai Llama has claimed that Tibet is now a ‘hell on earth’. What do people feel can be done by Tibetan’s to protect their heritage and culture before being subsumed? Should Tibetan’s choose another path? China’s reaction is so extreme it has locked down the whole country banning foreigners this month. It is obvious that China is trying to integrate Tibet by mass immigration of Han people. It seems they are not interested in any negotiation whatsoever even seeing the Dalai Llama as their enemy when the only thing he requests is autonomy and he advocates peaceful protest only.

A recent TIME article suggested the Dalai Lama should say he wants to return to Tibet.

The only thing he wants is autonomy?

In 50 years he has achieved nothing. However principled his position, the Dalai Llama has a rather large blind spot when it comes to seeing the political reality in Tibet. He could do more for “his people” by accepting it and trying to secure them a better share of China’s economic development.

Autonomy, freedom of religion, run their own local affairs, it seems a big ask to the Chinese, they only care about face and the Communist Party is afraid of losing power bit by bit.

The only thing he wants is autonomy?

In 50 years he has achieved nothing. However principled his position, the Dalai Llama has a rather large blind spot when it comes to seeing the political reality in Tibet. He could do more for “his people” by accepting it and trying to secure them a better share of China’s economic development.[/quote]

Could you please explain what he needs to accept? He has already accepted China’s sovereignty over Tibet.

[quote=“Thelonlieste”]
The only thing he wants is autonomy?

In 50 years he has achieved nothing. However principled his position, the Dalai Llama has a rather large blind spot when it comes to seeing the political reality in Tibet. He could do more for “his people” by accepting it and trying to secure them a better share of China’s economic development.[/quote]

‘There’s a difference between kneeling down and bending over’.

I’m sure many Tibetans understand and support the Dalai Lama’s position…

There will be no autonomy for Tibet (this is what he needs to accept). The Dalai Llama is just not very important in world affairs, which is why he has achieved nothing in 50 years.

I am not making value judgements here, just stating the obvious.

[quote=“Thelonlieste”]There will be no autonomy for Tibet (this is what he needs to accept). The Dalai Llama is just not very important in world affairs, which is why he has achieved nothing in 50 years.

I am not making value judgements here, just stating the obvious.[/quote]

He has nothing to gain by acquiecsing and plenty to lose.

[quote=“Thelonlieste”]There will be no autonomy for Tibet (this is what he needs to accept). The Dalai Llama is just not very important in world affairs, which is why he has achieved nothing in 50 years.

I am not making value judgements here, just stating the obvious.[/quote]

Yes & No. The Chinese will realize his value when they find out that he’s the only one who can keep the angry Tibetan youth in check. After him, it’s a bit of a leadership vacuum I’m afraid.

The Dalai Lama may not have gotten far in convincing China to grant autonomy, but he’s sure achieved a lot public relations-wise. I mean you don’t see too many people writing, protesting, etc about the Uighurs. Tibet gets tons of attention, and I think he has a lot to do with that. Not that outside pressure is going to force China to grant autonomy or anything, but at least they know the world is watching.
He’s already given up on independence (which is conceding more than a lot of young Tibetans would like). Is some form of autonomy that unreasonable? they pretend that Tibet is autonomous - it is called the “Tibetan Autonomous Region.” Actually I’ve read that a big issue is that he wants all of Tibet (ie. including the Tibetan parts of Qinghai, Sichuan, Gansu, Yunnan) to be included in a truly autonomous TAR. Obviously Chine really doesn’t like that idea.
Anyway, if he doesn’t have autonomy/religious freedom to fight for, it seems like he is just bending over…
Unfortunately I think the situation is pretty hopeless for the Tibetan cause unless there’s a big change to China’s political system or something…

The problem China has with Dalai’s version of autonomy and his “middle way” approach is that they think that’s just a veiled attempt for independence. The Chinese government doesn’t think Dalai has truely given up independence that’s why they won’t let him have his way.

It’s also extremely unfair to say that Tibetans are in “hell on earth”. Sure there are fair criticism of how China is governing Tibet, but alot of progress and economic advancement have taken place in the area which made people’s lives far better than before. What was really hell on earth was when Dalai and other lamas kept Tibetans as slaves before the '50s. Dalai is obviously still angry about losing power there. And if he want’s to come back to Tibet, I don’t think the Chinese government is going to stop him. Heck, they might even welcome it, certainly no Chinese official have said he can’t come back. Frankly, I think Dalai’s continued exile in India is pretty much self-imposed now.

Another thing I absolutely don’t agree with is the criticism that China is trying to integrate Tibet by mass immigration of Han people. Dalai, always with a flair for sensationalism, have called this “cultural genocide.” Since Tibet is part of China so course any Chinese citizen is free to travel, work, and live in Tibet, just like they can in any other provinces. I don’t want to be told that I can’t live in a part of my country just because of my ethnicity as much as next guy. What does Dalai lama want the Chinese government to do? Declare Tibet off-limit to Han people? Prohibit marriage between a Han and a Tibetan? This is the 21st century, and anything resembling eugenics or of “purity” of races is just so 1940’s. Tibetans should stop trying to have Tibet all to themselves. It’s a huge swath of land, not a tiny reservation.

It doesn’t matter if the Dalai Lama personally suspended the people from trees by their left leg and beat their naked arses with celery, you can’t just annex a neighbouring country and say ‘ah well, it was really shite anyway’. Otherwise Canada would already have done so.

Are Tibetans allowed to vote in China’s federal elections?

[quote=“ABC”]The problem China has with Dalai’s version of autonomy and his “middle way” approach is that they think that’s just a veiled attempt for independence. The Chinese government doesn’t think Dalai has truly given up independence that’s why they won’t let him have his way.

It’s also extremely unfair to say that Tibetans are in “hell on earth”. Sure there are fair criticism of how China is governing Tibet, but alot of progress and economic advancement have taken place in the area which made people’s lives far better than before. What was really hell on earth was when Dalai and other lamas kept Tibetans as slaves before the '50s. Dalai is obviously still angry about losing power there. And if he want’s to come back to Tibet, I don’t think the Chinese government is going to stop him. Heck, they might even welcome it, certainly no Chinese official have said he can’t come back. Frankly, I think Dalai’s continued exile in India is pretty much self-imposed now.

Another thing I absolutely don’t agree with is the criticism that China is trying to integrate Tibet by mass immigration of Han people. Dalai, always with a flair for sensationalism, have called this “cultural genocide.” Since Tibet is part of China so course any Chinese citizen is free to travel, work, and live in Tibet, just like they can in any other provinces. I don’t want to be told that I can’t live in a part of my country just because of my ethnicity as much as next guy. What does Dalai lama want the Chinese government to do? Declare Tibet off-limit to Han people? Prohibit marriage between a Han and a Tibetan? This is the 21st century, and anything resembling eugenics or of “purity” of races is just so 1940’s. Tibetans should stop trying have Tibet all to themselves. It’s a huge swath of land, not a tiny reservation.[/quote]

The cheek of them those Tibetans wanting Tibet all to themselves, imagine it! It’s interesting you called them Tibetan and not Chinese.

There’s solid historical evidence that Tibet has been part of China for many years, but for variety of reasons(remote location, weakness of central government, etc), Tibet had not been under China’s direct and effective jurisdiction most of the time. China was simply reclaiming what’s theirs all along. Also isn’t it a bit pointless to argue about that now. Wasn’t annexing Indian land how both US and Canada was formed? Wasn’t Hawaii an independent country, both de-facto and de-jure, before US annexed it? Yeah, I though so.

No, but neither are the vast majority of Han people. Keep things relative here. It would be unfair to the Han and rest of the country if Tibetans get rights that are not afforded to non-Tibetans now isn’t it?

The latest annual report from Freedom House gives Tibet the lowest possible score for human rights. It ranks alongside North Korea, Burma and Sudan. People may be better off by some crude economic measurement, but they certainly aren’t free. The main concern about economic development is that many Tibetans are marginalised by it.

It always amazes me how many people bring up these kind of arguments when talking about Tibet. Yes, pre-1950 Tibet was in many ways backward and a feudal society. However, in no way does this mean that Tibetans should be denied their basic human rights and the right to manage their own affairs in their own country.

The Dalai Lama has stated that it is not important whether he returns to Tibet or not. The rights and freedoms of 6 million Tibetan people are the most important thing.

Try to understand it from the perspective of a Tibetan person in Tibet. They are marginalised and face discrimination on the basis of their language, religion and cultural differences. Who is racist, the Tibetans or the Chinese?

No, but neither are the vast majority of Han people. Keep things relative here. It would be unfair to the Han and rest of the country if Tibetans get rights that are not afforded to non-Tibetans now isn’t it?[/quote]

Yes, I suppose that “would” be unfair. Is the Dalai Lama a proponent of democracy at all do you know?

Btw, have you ever been to nunavut?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut

I’m curious whether or not you feel the situations are analogous at all given this…

comment you made earlier.

Why not take him at his word for the past decades:

In any case, it is ludicrous for the Chinese to think that a few million self-governing Tibetans would be able to secretly form an army more than a match for the PLA.

He didn’t say that. He said that under the Chinese they have experienced hell on earth which is undeniable. Note this phrase is not time specific.

Let’s hear you make one.

As usual you are misinformed. Chinese do not enjoy the right to move freely about their country, and those migrants who do move do not usually get residency in their new place of abode. Without residency one cannot even rent an apartment, have one’s children schooled, which means migrants do not enjoy the same rights as residences. Shenzhen is just beginning to experiment with granting residency permits to migrants so they can enjoy the same rights as residents:

In Tibet most of the Han and Hui are migrants and so under Chinese law do not actually have any real right to be there and can be expelled without compensation.

Your gov restricts migration to many parts of the PRC. You can’t just up and move to HK, so why to the TAR? Stemming the flood of non-native immigrants into a region with a small ethnically cohesize population is both rational, humane, and sensible.

Indeed it is, but you have obviously never been if you think it is capable of holding millions of more citizens. It’s a largely dry barren place well suited to yak herders and not much else. You idiotic Han keep building towns in the hinterland only to discover there is no running water and so you have to lock bathroom doors with padlocks. In your infinite cheapness you also build without insulation which makes the meanest yak dung fired tent a warmer place to stay than a 4-star Chinese hotel.

By your everyday actions you prove you don’t understand the local land or culture and so by consequence don’t deserve to be there.

The Dalai Lama drafted a constitution for a democratic Tibet soon after he went into exile in 1959. The Tibetan Government-in-Exile has a parliament elected by a popular vote of Tibetans-in-exile.

You know the majority of China’s 55 ethnic minorities are doing alright and integrating just fine in society. Somehow they don’t feel the kind of discrimination Tibetans do. If the Tibetans(along with the Uigurs) want to keep themselves backward and isolated, there’s nothing the Chinese government can do about it.