Lovin
A provocative, though not new viewpoint. Plenty on both sides of the Atlantic see no need for NATO, nor for a US presence in Europe. For sure Europe does need to assume the responsibilities required of its “super state” ambitions. Then again, having lived under the umbrella (and stick) of the US for so long, there’s a dependency that won’t be easily shaken off. And a US withdrawal will be damned either way: isolationist or inerventionist.
The sooner we’re out the better. 
Toyally agree with you Mr. Smith. Can’t have US servicemen spending their time on the internet and chatting up 12 year-olds and then running off with them can we?
Sorry. What I meant to say was: surely it would be wiser not to have US servicemen mistaking 12 year-olds for super-hot Euro porn stars and then being led astray by them and thus distracting those same US servicemen from their holy crusade against terrorism and being guardians of our unimpeachable moral standards and values.
[quote=“BroonAle”]Toyally agree with you Mr. Smith. Can’t have US servicemen spending their time on the internet and chatting up 12 year-olds and then running off with them can we?
Sorry. What I meant to say was: surely it would be wiser not to have US servicemen mistaking 12 year-olds for super-hot Euro porn stars and then being led astray by them and thus distracting those same US servicemen from their holy crusade against terrorism and being guardians of our unimpeachable moral standards and values. [/quote]
What a stupid thing to say.
Totally stupid.
The US should pull out of NATO and let the Poms run Europe…they’re the only ones over there with any sort of common sense.
Totally Correct. 
We should turn Europe into an Anglo-Saxon super state and then go off and reclaim the Empire.
Europe is divided. Those governments that do support us have come up with fewer than 5,000 troops for Iraq. AND in a way having them there is not much help. They are in relatively safe areas. The British (different category a real nation with a real military) has given us 12,000.
So, why protect Europe when even our friends are at best able to cough up a few hundred troops each. If we leave, Europe will finally be forced to grow up. We can trash NATO and draw up a separate defense treaty with England. Forget Turkey and let them fight things out with Greece without our intervention over Cyprus and the Aegean. Let France and Germany and all the other poseurs finally deal with real military problems rather than pretending that they are more civilized than we are because they never have to get their hands dirty fighting. This will free up 100K plus troops for us AND save us a lot of money. NATO need not disband. Let’s just turn the keys over to the French and Belgians and Germans and say, here, we set up this organization, have it fully running and all the laws and rules set. All you have to do is staff it. Here ya go. All yours. Ciao.
Europe will survive the Americans departure and in the process will have to grow up. If they do not, then tough. Let them go back to killing themselves as they did for the previous 500 years. It is a continent far away and of little concern to me.
The accession of the new members
French voters have succeeded where the Bush administration failed: They have punished President Jacques Chirac and his center-right government. And it is unlikely that the French are finished, or alone, in taking out their bitterness and frustration on their rulers.
Humiliating defeats in regional elections last Sunday forced Chirac into a midweek reshuffling of his Cabinet that is a holding action for bigger domestic battles to come. But the angry growl heard at French ballot boxes echoes beyond the Hexagon. Chirac’s governmental makeover may help reshape the troubled transatlantic dialogue about Iraq. Moreover, Chirac’s punishment suggests that even local politics in the global era are not all local all the time.
It comes at a pregnant moment in Washington’s attempt to find common ground with Europe on Iraq and President Bush’s Greater Middle East Initiative. Gone are last year’s once-secret White House vows to ignore Germany and punish France for opposing the war in Iraq. In vogue are glad-handing meetings for President Bush with Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder last month in Washington and with Chirac in France in June.
But more than glad-handing is needed. A moment of transatlantic opportunity will evaporate if significant agreements are not reached this spring to bring American and European interests in the greater Middle East and Iraq into line with each other. That outcome needs to be clear by the time NATO nations gather for their Istanbul summit at the end of June, or it will float out of reach.
All things being relative:
[quote]
…
A crowd of Shiites who had traveled from throughout the country to Najaf tried to enter Camp Golf, a coalition garrison housing Spanish troops and an Iraqi police station, coalition officials said.
Some protesters opened fire at the garrison and troops returned fire, coalition officials said. Video from the scene showed protesters firing.
A Salvadoran soldier was killed, and 12 other Salvadorans and a U.S. soldier were wounded, a coalition statement said. The Salvadorans are serving with the Spanish forces in Iraq.
…[/quote]
edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast … index.html
Oh Rascal:
Come on. All coalition forces were deliberately given the safest areas. That is why the South Koreans and Japanese are going to Kurdistan. Where is the most trouble? The Sunni Triangle and who is there? US troops.
We must leave NATO because as the article mentioned, we are only allowing a sick dependence which builds resentment among Europeans to continue. We must force you to get a job and move out of the house for your own good. Otherwise, you will stay at home drinking and watching late night TV and railing against your parents (US) for being bourgeoisie pigs who don’t understand.
Fred, to remove ourselves from Nato etc would be an act of pure folly. We would be reducing our sphere of influnece and grip as to what is going on.
Sure it costs millions of dollars a year, what do you think the cost would be if we had to go back to the Cold War type days to obtain information and intelligence, a damn sight more than the current cost, plus as we would feel more isolated due to not being in Nato, our own military spending etc would be increased, all somewhat counter productive to your argument.
Nope Plotz:
I am a big fan of the alliance but it is time to move on. When the majority of Europeans argue and think like Rascal and ilk, it is time to move on and force them to be responsible for themselves. Now, they can pretend that military force is not only unimportant but “uncivilized.” Forcing them to pay for military will force them to debate this as they allocate funds and tax dollars. It will force them to take such matters seriously and then we will have true allies not spoiled children who are ignorant of the true nature of a security alliance and its place in this world.
Sorry but after a year of thinking long and hard about our “differences” with our European “friends” I think that this is the only way to save the alliance. Turn the keys over to them but force them to start adopt a realistic policy about the role of military forces. Until then, we are dealing with a 25 year old who goes out all night with his friends drinking and sleeps all day and doesn’t work and then scorns us (the parents who support him with our house and our money and our food) for our bourgeoisie values. Sorry but it’s over. I want a divorce.
Love Fred
Fred, if you want a divorce, then that is the same as removing ourselves from Nato, then please see previous mail as it still applies.
If you actually mean something else then further explanation is required
Out of Europe first and then let’s take a good look at our relationship with friends in East Asia.
Nope. Means exactly that. It will be good for Europe in the long run. Look at its policies now and laugh but really these nations will have to get their shit together and soon and if they do not well Europe is a faraway continent about which I know nor care very little. Hahah Love Chamberlain.
Fred, then my first post applies, yes it may make the europeans grow up as you put it, but it also isolates us form the rest of the world, so that intelligence gathering etc becomes a much more costly exercise, not to mention the long term impact on trade etc that such moves could have. Unfortunately, the US is by no means self sufficient, in some areas maybe, but in total NO.
This would damage us more.
Fred, then my first post applies, yes it may make the europeans grow up as you put it, but it also isolates us form the rest of the world, so that intelligence gathering etc becomes a much more costly exercise, not to mention the long term impact on trade etc that such moves could have. Unfortunately, the US is by no means self sufficient, in some areas maybe, but in total NO.
This would damage us more.
who said we have to stop cooperating on intelligence. I am saying that we should stop defending them for free. I want a divorce. Does not mean we cannot cooperate on raising any children and such. We can have an amicable divorce but I will no longer fight or support efforts to protect Europe. Fuck em. Besides how are we going to be any more alone? Who’s with us now and what are they supporting us with. Fuck em twice. But leave and leave we must. arrividerci!
Love Fred