[quote]US-led investigators have located nine trenches in Hatra containing hundreds of bodies believed to be Kurds killed during the repression of the 1980s.
The skeletons of unborn babies and toddlers clutching toys are being unearthed, the investigators said.
They are seeking evidence to try Saddam Hussein for crimes against humanity.[/quote]
And you [deleted by moderator] are claiming that the U.S. shouldn’t have bothered?
[quote]Mr Kehoe said that work to uncover graves around Iraq, where about 300,000 people are thought to have been killed during Saddam Hussein’s regime, was slow as experienced European investigators were not taking part.
The Europeans, he said, were staying away as the evidence might be used eventually to put Saddam Hussein to death. [/quote]
Ah, I see. Saddam killed 300,000 so it was wrong to depose him and it would be even wronger to put him to death. Better to give him a palace in exile and a stipend from the French government.
Was America pro-Saddam or pro-Iran when the Kurds were gassed ? I can’t remember… Is Yasser Arafat a good guy or a bad guy now ? He was a “bad man” when I was a kid, but I saw him with Clinton the other day… I’m sure Gadaffi’s still a bad man, though. He killed that WPC and blew up a plane in Scotland. But I could have sworn I saw Blair shaking hands with him last week…
All very confusing. We’re friends with Pakistan though aren’t we ? And Indonesia, right ? I know they’ve got a lot of Land Rovers in their army …
And China. Let’s sell more arms to China. Hey, 1989 was a long time ago. I mean the Kurds were gassed in 1988 and six months later a firm in Maryland sent them some Anthrax 11966. Surely if we can do that for our old friend Iraq we can help China out after 15 years !!?
[quote]Dennis was 18 when he and an accomplice tried to rob two men outside an Akron home in 1994. One of the men gave up $15. The other, Kurt Kyle, 29, began searching his pockets, and Dennis shot him to death.
Dennis (the murderer) blamed Kyle (the victim) for failing to cooperate and notice that he (Dennis) was high on drugs.
“I ain’t saying it’s all his fault, but why did he move?” Dennis said from death row. “Every day I think about that. It ain’t ‘Why did you kill that man?’ It’s ‘Why did you move?’”
He told the parole board that he would not have left eyewitnesses “if my mind had been right at the time.” [/quote]
Meanwhile, back on the topic, if you will bother to read the BBC article, it rather specifically mentioned the skulls of babies with bullet holes through them, dumped with their mothers. Also toddlers with toys, shot and bulldozed into Saddam’s mass graves.
But then again, why would I expect anything different from the Europeans, who were so good at filling mass graves themselves not all that many years ago.
Several of Forumosa’s prominent America-haters were heard to shriek:
So, tell me – if the upcoming U.S. election were Clinton vs. Bush, and if you were allowed to vote, which one would you be voting for?
Bush hasn’t been shaking hands with Arafat, in case you hadn’t noticed.
Yeah, the anthrax thing. Bad mistake, but only a mistake. People harp on it like it was a deliberate transfer of WMD materiel; in fact, in 1988, anyone affiliated with any research lab, who was willing to sign a statement that they were using the culture for vaccine research, could get a sample for a few hundred US dollars. That stupid loophole was repaired very quickly thereafter, but unfortunately it was a little too late. See the Judith Miller book “Germs” for details.
Typical moral relativism at play here. It does not matter that the US “murders” murderers at the rate of a few hundred after exhaustive legal proceedings and a jury trial. No, this is the moral equivalent of millions of deaths without a trial but a powerhungry and sadistic dictator just because… does that make sense to anyone else? I didn’t think so either, but if you trace the kind of person who could make that statement down to their political roots, I’ll bet you will find someone who is still an ardent Marxist at heart who believes communism never was really put into practice so we cannot say that it was a failed system. Right?
Are you replying to Juba post? If so I think you may be making a bit too much out of it. Is there any equivalence between the two, not realy no. But killing Saddam won’t bring them back to life, won’t stop any others like Saddam. Executing people has been shown to have minimal if any deterant effect. I oppose the death penalty because it reeks of vengance not justice. I want the rule of law to be paramount. I don’t think emotion should come into it, hence I don’t like the death penalty. I still find it odd that the Christian right lust after the death penalty so much. The message of revenge that comes across was not something that I remember hearing in the New Testament. Mercy, tolerance, yes. Revenge…no. I believe that the unltimate judgement is supposed to be God’s to make, not John Ashcroft’s or anybody elses.
Justice and vengence go hand in hand… one does not exclude the other. Certainly rehabilitation, deterrence and protection are also elements that walk together with “justice”. But again, not to the exclusion of vengence.
Capital punishment is not in conflict with the rule of law.
I oppose capital punishment because of the possibility for intentional abuse in the system and for honest or negligent error in the accusations and or judgments.
In theory, however, I have no problem with the concept that murderers (even those who attempt but fail) and rapists deserve to be put to death.
So, tell me – if the upcoming U.S. election were Clinton vs. Bush, and if you were allowed to vote, which one would you be voting for? [/quote]
Christ. Did Clinton have a foreign policy ? I lost a lot of respect for Clinton when he chose that rather plain tart for a plaything.
It is in the nature of Western countries to sell arms to all comers anyway. Like the British, French, and Germans weren’t. I wonder how it would work if it was put to the populations of those respective countries that all weapons manufacturers were allowed only sell to their domestic economies ?
I like the way the French rant on about the war in Iraq whilst haranguing the EU to allow them to sell weapons to China. Will they then complain if someone has to go to war with China to stop them doing away with everyone in Taiwan ?
When the West sells all these nasty guns and things to countries it has to envisage the possibility the countries might use them. For Chrissakes the Argentinians were blowing up British ships with French Exocets.
Hexuan wrote: [quote]I lost a lot of respect for Clinton when he chose that rather plain tart for a plaything. [/quote]
Which one are you talking about? It better not be Monica or I’m gonna be really pissed off. She was - in her prime - a big chunk of hot babeness. I almost took up smoking cigars because of her.
Look at the situation in Iraq now. Are ordinary citizens really better of than before? Hard to say. Are the U.S. forces being seen as liberators? Definitely not (any more).
So, was it a bad idea to get involved in Iraq, or was it basically a good idea that was simply badly executed? I don’t know, but I’m not so sure anymore who the naive guy is: The one claiming to be anti-war who effectivley is pro-Saddam or the one thinking that invading a country and forcefully removing a dictator will lead to peace and prosperity.
Name an instance where the US sold any weapons that threatened an ally like France has consistently done and to some extent even Germany. Russia is not our ally.
To the last poster whose name has slipped my mind:
The World Bank predicts economic growth of 40% this year. Others have put economic growth in Iraq at 60%. Given that 80% of the country is generally quiet, what’s your point. Ask the 20% of the population which is Kurdish about their peace and prosperity. Ask the 65% of the Shias how they like having Saddam gone. The Sunni triangle is the only real mess and that is being cleaned up.
Generally, look at other major cities like Kirkuk and Irbil. Very quiet. What do you hear from Basra? Not much. Some violence in Mosul, but it is a very big city. I would say we are right on track and when we get to Fallujah this time, we don’t stop. If there has to be a stand, it has to be there. Let history judge and let the pieces fall where they may.
America changes allies too frequently for me to possibly keep up. Those chaps the Brits, Aussies, and Americans are fighting in Iraq a ce moment are using US weapons left over from when we armed Iraq against Iran poot etra ? Je ne say “pah”.
