This is certainly an interesting thread. I wish I’d known about that meeting as I would have gone. I’d like to go to the rally on the weekend.
The only reason I can think of for Hess to be at that meeting is so they can try to lobby for multiple locations for the same work permit. They don’t give a fat rodent’s earlobe about the rights of their employees. Hess at a workers’ rights meeting is like having a fox guard a hen house.
Unfortunately, I think it is indeed a case of employers doing as they please and employees largely having to take it or leave (the job and/or Taiwan). Likewise, if the government is going to be this ineffectual, then perhaps people have to either go over their heads (including taking photos of them to eventually find out who they are), use Forumosa as some kind of bully pullpit to actively dissuade people from coming to Taiwan (or at least to really stigmatise certain schools or chains that had treat people badly), or unionise.
I think unionising would probably be effective under the right circumstances. However, it would require getting a large number of people onboard for it to be effective. I could see large chains actively thwarting that from the beginning, and there are enough people free-lancing out there who would also undermine it, at the chain level, but especially at the small level where they could make some decent enough short-term financial gains.
The other thing is that at some level, this would require the support of a decent number of locals. Otherwise, foreigners standing up for their rights will always be perceived as trouble-makers. I, and several others at my work, have been labelled a trouble-maker simply for trying to get my employer to adhere to what is in the contract or suggesting better ways to do things. Who would support workers’ rights though? Employers almost certainly wouldn’t and parents wouldn’t because they’d probably have to pay higher tuition fees. In order to get some of the parents or someone else in the community on side, we’d have to convince them that the current business model is actually short-changing them as individuals and as a country, despite being cheaper. We’d need statistics, especially regarding qualified teachers, and polls and testimonials regarding people leaving Taiwan. Maybe we would need to commission these things ourselves.
I am a qualified teacher. I am married to a local. I am still seriously thinking about leaving Taiwan because I’m sick of all the crap to do with working here and the pathetic conditions. Let them put that in their pipe and smoke it.
All, you need to be aware that unions are only permitted within one employer. Thus there could be a union at Hess, but there can’t be a union of Buxiban teachers in general. Taiwan’s labor laws are byproducts of the anti-communist martial law period and as a result unions here are largely ineffectual except for those at big state-run companies like Taipower.
Um, isn’t that precisely maoman’s point? This whole thing was a total sham and the people who made it happen are now snickering up their sleeves at how easily they duped the stupid foreigners.
That’s possible but a more likely explanation is that there was a total lack of preparation for something that was not considered important and that people were sent more for their supposed language skills rather than any real knowledge of the subject.
Dealing with the Taiwanese government takes persistence, organization, and follow through. Otherwise, the results are similar to what was reported here.
Also, it sounds like there is a major disconnect between the foreign nationals at the meeting and the civil servants. The foreign nationals think there is a problem and are expecting positive steps toward change.
The civil servants think that Taiwan has a generous immigration policy and good protections for white collar employees.
According to maoman, one of them couldn’t even speak fucking English! Nothing wrong with that for a local civil servant, of course, but for a meeting with foreigners? :eh:
Fact is, these people do not give a fiddler’s fart about what ANY of us think or have to say. Not a toss.
Without support from a sufficiently large bloc of Taiwanese voters to make these dickwads sit up and take notice, all you’ll get until the cows come home is lip service, nothing more.
The question is NOT about “liasing” with government – it doesn’t work, has never worked and WILL never work. Its about getting local support. How can we do that? THAT’S what would interest me. With sufficient local support willing to air our views and willing to threaten the witholding of their votes, only THEN is there a ghost of a chance of foreigner-driven forward motion. And even then, its only a ghost.
I’ve used the info on jidanni.org/foreigner/index_en.html and made a little leaflet to pass out at the rally on Sunday, I’m trying to coordinate with TIWA and see if they can help us pass them out but I’m planning on printing up a batch in any case.
I voted other. After being initially interested upon hearing this meeting, I became disinterested after learning that “White Collar” basically meant “English Teacher”.
Only about half of the foreigners that showed up to this meeting were English teachers… the laws that apply to English teachers apply to anyone with a Class A Resident Visa, and these issues that we need to discuss are important for every foreigner coming to live in Taiwan, regardless of visa class. This kind of thinking will not really help anyone - including yourself if you are a foreign resident.
I attended the recent meeting. Joining a few friends for the opportunity to grill these representatives on the issues facing most of us, it became clear that the panel were no more informed than clerks sitting at the front desk of their respective departments. When Ms. Peng remarked cheekily that we (attendees) weren’t blue-collar workers, insinuating that we should be more clued up about our situation, it marked the end of my interest.
To focus on the positives, I want to echo the sentiments made by Greves. For those of you who have expressed disappointment in missing out on the meeting, I would encourage you to tag along on Sunday. You can imagine that many domestic workers won’t have a chance to be represented on Sunday. What a great way to compensate by adding a few “white collar” faces to the rally and getting some more air time as a result (at least that’s how the local people will see it). We need to raise awareness of the domestic workers’ plight. The typical Taiwanese’s perception on the matter is dumbfounding to say the least.
Besides, I haven’t been involved in any major traffic diversion since my Uni days!
To Mrs. Wu Jing Ru and her team, thanks a lot for the opportunity. They did a fantastic job mediating the event, making sure everyone managed to get a say, and ensuring no blood was spilt.
Standard behavior for low-level officials. Those really don’t get that they did not answer the question. When higher-level officials or politicians do it, it’s usually on purpose. (Low-level politicians, like e.g. council members, don’t get it as well.) [This comment was not Taiwan-specific.]
