[quote=“sandman”]
I mean, of course anyone who’s never bothered to even learn to play the horn is a total moron as well as being basically a lazy shite. That much is obvious. But honestly! COMPUTERS! Can there even BE anything more boring? Maybe train-spotting. Or stamp collecting. [/quote]
Without any argument, the world would be different without computers. I wonder know if you simply got old, having a bad day, or trying to get some people on the saddle.
On the latter, you succeeded
I find it a heart puking to connect Computer = Boring = must be Geek. That is sooooo 80’s.
As for the horn, my ex tried to persuade me to play the Sax. Well, [color=#FF0000]it was simply not my INTEREST[/color] as I had to admit after a few weeks.
I could have said that the horn players I practiced with were a bunch of low life, red nose, drunk, loud talking , carnavalesk Dutch farmers (which was all true )being not my standard of socializing, though it was simply ME not feeling a connection with a horn and the boring rituals around.
Could it be that you know compare the usage of your fingers / mouth playing the horn versus the brains Geek’s seems to need more, being indulged in a low-life within computers?
An anecdote:
I failed my studies. Dropped out of school when I was 16, deserted the Army when I was 17. Jumped into a work/school education program and ended up working as a boring TV repair men for 12.000 NTD per month in '82.
When I was 19, I build my own computer. I wanted to proof to my elders that I WAS capable of something, which was then the future called “IT”. Building a computer at the age of 19 without studying ,was that not something to be proud of. I found it simply MAGIC when the thing started to work. Yep, I was going out, drinking, chasing, smoking pot , living on the edge, but that Computer was only an INTEREST and I even never saw me doing anything in IT. Thus, I never made a connection between boring and a thing which would drive our total world
Your Sax might sound as MAGIC in the ears of others, but a boring Belgian invention to me.
I am 40+ know and still very interested in Computers and Electronics ( WTF is a definition of a GEEK anyway?) , thus my carrier went a total other direction, now providing me the ultimate corporate Expat life millions might dream of.
Bottom line, what is boring for you is not for me and the other way around. Thus linking it with anything as “geek” is not fair.
I have a high esteem for Sax players, stamp collectors and pigeon breeders.
In any filed of interest, you need experts. Or, shall we stop progress un der the umbrella of your boredom and all go camping and hunting in the Highlands… ?
[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“igorveni”]I am a big Apple fan, but I’d have to agree with Sandman, that it is not because someone doesn’t know how to use a computer that he or she has to be labelled lazy or what-not.
I’d pay someone to change my car tires, just because I can’t be bothered. So, have a laugh at me. [/quote]
I don’t know you or your habits but most of the people I know who are Apple fans have zero interest in reading manuals or learning how things work. In general they seem quite happy to use their devices the way they were delivered and don’t wish to delve into tweaking it or figuring out how it works. Apple for the most part has it’s target well defined and it works for them. None of this bothers me until my lazy friends can’t figure out how to do something and want it done for them. I grew up with Basic and DOS and while I wouldn’t describe myself as a geek, I don’t mind figuring things out for myself. I’m willing to teach anyone anything I know, but I can’t stand people who want to be spoon-fed. I can’t quite figure out if Apple has raised a generation of people too lazy to read or research things for themselves, or merely savvy enough to recognize that such a demographic exists and market to it exclusively. There is a whole swath of other devices people are getting too lazy to read manuals for, so the potential for Apple seems pretty much unlimited.
Disclaimer. I’m neither tattooed with the Apple logo, nor anti-Apple. I used to run iMacs years ago, own various iPods and an iPhone.[/quote]
You probably misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I am very handy with a computer and I love tweak around with it, I like to learn things that I have interest in, Sandman doesn’t seem to be interested in learing techie things about computer, doesn’t make him lazzy, I can’t be bothered to learn about car mechanics, I am just not interested, I’d rather pay someone to do it.
Do you read and research about every single thing in your life? If you do, and I doubt it, well good for you, not everyone is like you.
[quote=“igorveni”]
You probably misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I am very handy with a computer and I love tweak around with it, I like to learn things that I have interest in, Sandman doesn’t seem to be interested in learing techie things about computer, doesn’t make him lazzy, I can’t be bothered to learn about car mechanics, I am just not interested, I’d rather pay someone to do it.
[/quote]Learning how to use a DVD player and learning how to diagnose a car involve rather different levels of study, so that’s a bit of a strawman. I do understand what you mean though. I don’t think that wishing to know how your computer works or how to set it up without asking your IT guy for help makes you a geek, it just makes you more independent or self-reliant, which can never IMO be a bad thing.
[quote=“igorveni”]
Do you read and research about every single thing in your life? If you do, and I doubt it, well good for you, not everyone is like you.[/quote]
Well, I do find that the more specialized the knowledge, the more likely it is that those in the know are going to be ripping off the ignorant, so yes, I do like to study anything that’s going to cost money to get done by a so-called expert.
Me neither. That’s why I pay cold hard cash for someone to do it for me. If I wanted you to TEACH me how to do it I’d probably be prepared to pay a lot more, but I’m not. At ALL. Why bother? There are millions out there who’ll take my money to do a faster and more efficient job while I’m kicking back on the porch with a nice cold beer.
Wow, you can read me like a book. Must be all of that literacy.[/quote]
That’s rich coming from you of all people, who’s too damn bone-idle to even walk the 50 yards to my front gate and return my copies of See Spot Run and My First Colouring Book. And you better just not have gone over any of the lines, either.
I earn more than three times what the IT techies get and more than double what their boss gets, for doing a MUCH MUCH easier job with better hours, to boot. Makes me fairly content, at least. Then again, I’m easily pleased. Like if you gave me an iPad, I’d be WELL happy.
Honestly, I see this discussion as a couple of off-roaders complaining that the new Nissan March is crap in sand.
You guys are enthusiasts. The iPad, from what I can tell, is for the city driver who just wants a slick wee runaround so he doesn’t need to waste gas on taking the SUV to RTMart for the weekly grocery run.
[quote]Without any argument, the world would be different without computers. I wonder know if you simply got old, having a bad day, or trying to get some people on the saddle.
On the latter, you succeeded [/quote]
No doubt whatsoever. I couldn’t do my job without one. Doesn’t mean I have ANY interest in how they work or how to fix them. That part is just boring. They’re just appliances. I also don’t have any interest in learning how to fix my TV or fridge. Doesn’t make me a bad person. Or illiterate. Or lazy.
I hope no one stated that. Thus a comparison as showing interests in PC’s and collecting stamps is far off.
Imagine the excitement that 1 stamp he is chasing for 10 years can provide to that collector.
Sitting on your porch is great looking at the trains driving by ?
This is an off topic anyway, thus I would not opt for an iPad. there is nothing to play around with it - not for nerds or geeks anyway
[quote=“sandman”][quote]Without any argument, the world would be different without computers. I wonder know if you simply got old, having a bad day, or trying to get some people on the saddle.
On the latter, you succeeded [/quote]
No doubt whatsoever. I couldn’t do my job without one. Doesn’t mean I have ANY interest in how they work or how to fix them. That part is just boring. They’re just appliances. I also don’t have any interest in learning how to fix my TV or fridge. Doesn’t make me a bad person. Or illiterate. Or lazy.[/quote]I have no problem with that. They do what you want. You don’t waste money on things you don’t need. That’s not unreasonable.
It’s also not unreasonable to want all the bangs and whistles, if someone wants a computer they can put in their ear, what’s the problem? If someone wants to have fun on their computer, what’s the problem? If someone wants to watch films with a crystal clear picture, what’s the problem? I can understand it’s boring, noone’s asking you to be interested in it, but why all the hate whenever someone is interested in something you’re not? Imagine it people ranted about saxophones and jug 'n blues music the way you rant about technology. Personally, I have the same opinion towards sports and politics that you do to technology, but I don’t try to threadjack all threads about sports and politics. Well, not all of them.
By the way, if it wasn’t for geeks who wanted a bit more bang, you wouldn’t have computers that fit on your desk or phones that fit in your pocket in the first place, so cut them a bit of slack eh?
What bothers me about sandman is the scorn directed at people who do IT work, while he earns less than a marginally-competent corporate secretary makes in the US. I wonder what he could pull down back in the world? A lot less than the “geeks,” no doubt
So I will break my rule against weekend posting again since I was told this thread got crazy.
Sandman is trolling. He does this. It is normal. One should not bite his flame-bait.
Sandman if your salary is correct, we live in the same country and I make twice what you make from my day job. On freelance in November I made XX,XXX USD off of 60 hours work. And I am probably half your age. Talking about how you are a big money maker over your IT folk here is inappropriate. They make a respectable salary in their home country. If you want to wave around money, you make absolute shit compared to the rest of the world. You can be a high mucky muck in Taiwan, but the reality is on your salary you are a beggar in most international cities.
Computing is the only thing is this world it is socially acceptable to be lazy at. It is not like having a mechanic fix the tires or any other analogy. Computers are tools for work. People NEED to use them. If there were no computers, most white collar workers would be out of work. If a carpenter does not know how to use a lathe he is a bad carpenter. If a white collar worker can’t take a few hours out of their life to really understand what their machine does then they are incompetent. It isn’t a matter of “manual labor” it is a matter of understanding the essentials of your work. There isn’t magic tinkering or any other hardcore tweaking. Just basic maintenance. The same as with any other object in the known universe. The only thing different in computing is that apple has made a culture where lazy people can feel like a company is making a product specifically for their needs. It doesn’t matter that the product is inferior, only that it “just works”.
[quote=“djlowballer”]So I will break my rule against weekend posting again since I was told this thread got crazy.
Sandman is trolling. He does this. It is normal. One should not bite his flame-bait.
Sandman if your salary is correct, we live in the same country and I make twice what you make from my day job. On freelance in November I made XX,XXX USD off of 60 hours work. And I am probably half your age. Talking about how you are a big money maker over your IT folk here is inappropriate. They make a respectable salary in their home country. If you want to wave around money, you make absolute shit compared to the rest of the world. You can be a high mucky muck in Taiwan, but the reality is on your salary you are a beggar in most international cities.
Computing is the only thing is this world it is socially acceptable to be lazy at. It is not like having a mechanic fix the tires or any other analogy. Computers are tools for work. People NEED to use them. If there were no computers, most white collar workers would be out of work. If a carpenter does not know how to use a lathe he is a bad carpenter. If a white collar worker can’t take a few hours out of their life to really understand what their machine does then they are incompetent. It isn’t a matter of “manual labor” it is a matter of understanding the essentials of your work. There isn’t magic tinkering or any other hardcore tweaking. Just basic maintenance. The same as with any other object in the known universe. The only thing different in computing is that apple has made a culture where lazy people can feel like a company is making a product specifically for their needs. It doesn’t matter that the product is inferior, only that it “just works”.[/quote]
This doesn’t make 100% sense (aside from the part where you admonish others to avoid flamebait and in the next sentence proceed to bite down hard). If these Apple consumers are as lazy as you imply, then it follows they’re poor. Further, it follows that Apple products are sold at near commodity prices.
But of course Apple products are sold at a premium. [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/the-apple-tablet-ipad-thread/56299/13 fact, it’s that premium that seems to have you so wound up.[/url] So I think you have a little personal axe grinding going on here, calling Apple users “lazy.” There is some fundamental difference here between what you define as personal laziness and its more generally accepted definition.
P.S. A product that “just works” is like the holy grail, btw. That’s about as good as any manufacturer can aspire to: supplying a product that does what it’s supposed to do. Ain’t never nothing wrong with selling something that “just works.” Your five-figure development, the free-lance work you did last November, surely you delivered something that “just worked” and were delighted when your customer agreed, no?
No. Apple sells their customers something that “Just Works”. I sell my clients software that works. One is a marketing slogan that blatantly ignores the pages of issues with every device released. The other is something that can’t have issues or I would have my ass sued off. It is not a matter of semantics , in my field it is a very large difference.
And if you think money alone is the issue, it really isn’t. It’s the specs and software limitations that I question. All this thread aside I will probably end up owning an iPad at some point only to keep up with the latest in technology. I freelance embedded systems work occasionally and need to know what people need. The original thread was about the iPad and we were discussing it’s merits and flaws based on the current technology ecosystem. Price point is a valid consideration. If you are curious though, I had 2000$USD set aside if apple had decided to put full OS X on the iPad. If at some point in the future an iPad has a real OS on it, I will be the first to suck apple’s rich dick.
If we accept your attempt at Lazy = Poor =apple is sold at commodity prices. Then I will bite you logical game and disprove via counter-example.
Fresh off the boat English teachers with no qualifications to teach English make more than almost any local on the island. QED.
I AM in the real world, bucko. That’s what you seem to fail to understand. I AM here, doing nicely enough that I really don’t need to worry about how much the Yanquis make in THEIR world. I gots mine, bro.
And I’m quite happy that I don’t need to fuck about with something as utterly banal as getting a computer to work.
Point is, I have three. All of them work. If they don’t, it costs like NT$400 to get 'em working, usually. You SERIOUSLY think I’m about to screw around learning how to fix 'em? You have GOT to be kidding me! Here’s NT$800 for a NT$200 job. You’re happy, I’m happy. Get off your stupid-kid jag and learn to live in the real world. And if you don’t want the NT$800? No sweat off of MY balls, dude. I can call any number of kids who’ll be happy to do the job for half the price.
Getting your knickers in a twist over fucking HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES!
Jesus! Take a LOOK at yerself!
None. None at all. I understand that completely. So does Apple. They’re not making this gadget for those people though. They’re making them for people like me. And its working.
Its exactly like cars. When they first came out, you had to know how to work them or you were screwed. Not any more. Same with computers. That’s all. So that lowball dude makes eleventy squillion bucks a month fiddling with people’s computers. So what? I know loads of people who make more than me for basically the same job. So what? I’m happy. I guess they’re happy too.
Its not about that. Its about a cool wee gadget. Some people are into them, some are turning up their noses. It is NOT a matter of being “illiterate and lazy.” Its a matter of priorities. That’s all.
And as for that other bloke – beautiful spam or whatever? I have absolutely NO idea WHAT his gig is? Or his argument, for that matter. It seems to be that I earn less than a secretary in some foreign country far far away that I’ll probably never be forced to visit in my life. Which is surely something I won’t be losing any sleep over.
I get enough so I can live nicely, send my kid to a good school, save for retirement and have two VERY nice overseas holidays per year. AND have some wee lackey to fix my computer any time I want – for peanuts! I’m QUIDS IN, dude! Deal with it!
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