To hate America is to hate mankind

Politics International Politics
1

An interesting piece fom the Telegraph.
And so close to the 4th of July.

[quote]To hate America is to hate mankind
(Filed: 03/07/2006)

Kipling’s poem The White Man’s Burden is often assumed to be about the British Empire, but it was in fact addressed to the United States, then beginning its global ascendancy following the Spanish-American War.

A century later, its lines -“The blame of those ye better, the hate of those ye guard” - seem eerily prophetic. According to our YouGov poll, even many Britons regard America as malign, although they remain fond of individual Americans.

Of course America occasionally deserves criticism. Like every country, it puts its own interests first, sometimes hypocritically. George W. Bush’s decision to impose tariffs on imported steel, while preaching commercial liberalisation, is an example.

Ditto the outrageous one-sidedness of the extradition treaty that allows the American authorities to whisk British subjects away without presenting prima facie evidence, but allows no reciprocal action against IRA gunmen in America.

This is, of course, how all superpowers behave. A hundred years ago, it was Britain that resisted supranationalism, and America that constantly demanded international arbitration. But the fact that other nations would do the same if they could get away with it means little to America’s critics.

Americans find themselves damned either way. If they remain within their own borders, they are isolationist hicks who are shirking their responsibilities. If they intervene, they are rapacious imperialists.

Indeed, many of their detractors manage to hold these two ideas in their heads simultaneously. Yet a moment’s thought should reveal that they are both unfair. In Yugoslavia, America did everything it could to encourage Europe to act.

Only when European passivity was leading to mass slaughter did Washington intervene - benignly and decisively. (Even the most virulent anti-Americans struggle to explain what possible strategic interest there was in Kosovo.) It is a similar story when it comes to Iran.

For a decade, American policy-makers left it to the EU to defuse the nuclear threat from the ayatollahs. Now, with their tactic of constructive engagement in ruins, the Europeans instinctively look to Washington for protection. But you can bet that they will howl with protest if it becomes clear that such protection is best afforded through the deployment of force.

To dislike a country as diverse as America is misanthropic: America, more than any other state, contains the full range of humanity between its coasts. What binds its people together is an ideal encoded in America’s DNA.

Conceived in a popular uprising against autocratic government, the United States has a natural sympathy with self-rule, personal freedom and representative government. To this day, it is guided by the Jeffersonian ideal that decisions should be taken as closely as possible to the people they affect.

The EU, of course, is founded on the opposite principle, that of “ever-closer union”. No wonder its peoples sometimes resent their more successful cousins.
Telegraph.co.uk[/quote]
But of course, I’m a bit biased here… :sunglasses:
The White Mans Burden…Rudyard Kipling

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I wonder what the founding fathers would think of today’s America.

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[quote]Mark Twain is known the world over for his books and humor, but less well known is that he was an active anti-imperialist. After his death, his executors suppressed some of his more political writings and only in recent history have these opinions become more widely known…

…He became outraged when the United States became involved in imperialism. In 1898 the United States fought the Spanish-American war. It began with intervention on behalf of the Cubans, but the American victory in Cuba led to the Spanish surrender of all their possessions in the Pacific. The United States had to decide what to do with them. This began the American experience with imperialism.

An English author and poet, Rudyard Kipling urged America to play the imperialism game. His famous “The White Man’s Burden,” often called the “Anthem of Imperialism,” appeared in McClure’s Magazine in 1899, and was written to appeal to America keep the Philippines.

President McKinley decided to keep most of the possessions. Most controversial was the Philippines. The Filipinos resisted American rule and the Philippine American War was the result. Forcing the Philippines to accept American rule outraged Twain. He wrote the satire To the Person Sitting in Darkness and commented often to express his Views on Imperialism…[/quote]
Source

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[quote=“spook”]I wonder what the founding fathers would think of today’s America.[/quote]spook -
It has been shown, that if we give you enough time, you will tell us.

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They would want to see an executive with even more power and able to get away with breaking the law, in short, one a little more like King George.

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Of course, all this is just opinion.

And why is it so bad to hate a country? I’m sure people have a right to hate anything they want whether they are justified or not.

Various white papers showing pressure from the US for the UK to reduce the size of it’s military and huge pressure to cancel arms projects throughout the 1950’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80’s is also hypocritical, seeing as the US has been complaining that Europe has been hiding under the “US defence umbrella.”
What do you expect?

However, since Europe as a whole makes up most of America’s trading partners, it is in America’s own interestes to protect it. Without Europe, the US would collapse.

Don’t get me started.

I’d agree, but there are levels to which you take things and the US has probably exceeded all of them.

No, I don’t think so.

Some countries were acting well before the US “intervened.” same in Kosovo.

It’s a shame it didn’t intervene in WW2 where mass slaughter was taking place there.
How about present-day African hotspots?

[quote]For a decade, American policy-makers left it to the EU to defuse the nuclear threat from the ayatollahs. Now, with their tactic of constructive engagement in ruins, the Europeans instinctively look to Washington for protection. But you can bet that they will howl with protest if it becomes clear that such protection is best afforded through the deployment of force.
[/quote]

Again, I point to agreed disarmament after and sometimes during the cold war years and the pressure given by the United States to cancel ongoing military projects. Agree to reduce arms and then get criticised for not joining in with a war.

Didn’t the US try to disuade the UK from entering a confl;ict with Argentina?

Din’t the US put immense pressure on the UK to pull out of the Suez crisis. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Isn’t it quite clear that anti-west behaviour has it’s roots in the way that America has treated Middle Eastern nations, both now and in the past. I’m quite sure that while some nuclear warheads will be pointing at Europe, the vast majority will be pointing at the States.

Nice scenery, nice people. Stupid govenment. Stupid politics. Collectively dumb population.

I think the resentment comes from the fact that the US was handed everything on a plate after Europe was falttened during WW2. The fact that the US is extremely agressive in the business world and will buy, flatten or sabotage any competition as quickly as possible and also by the generally disgraceful way it treats even it’s closest allies.

What was I reading the other day - ah yes…after the recenent oil refinery fire near Heathrow airport it has been necessary to initiate emergency fuel planning whereby foriegn planes can only draw up to half their required fuel uplift. This emergency procedure is agreed internationally and the US signed the paper.
It turns out that the US authorities have been penalizing UK aircraft companies flying to the States by imposing impossibly high landing tarriffs and fuel charges and has continued to do so unless the UK relaxes the procedure for the US.
This kind of thing goes on all the time in every area of commerce.

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How does one address such points? Talk about misguided resentment…

I suggest that you take it upon yourself to actually answer one of those many emails going around about adding four inches to your anatomy. Perhaps, it will help resolve these feelings of inferiority? It may work and what the hell…

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I try not to hate anyone.

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The more I hear, the more pissed off I get about our damned continent.

I’m from the same place you are. I suggest you re-think your statement that I feel inferior.

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I think hating anyone and hating America are a little different. I don’t like America, but can’t recall meeting an American I disliked.

I think my distaste for America comes from different places. Some of it is because I believe in socialism. More of it because, being from Canada, it’s like having a big brother who usually wins at everything(except hockey). And I think their nauseating national pride accounts for the rest of it.

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I think hating anyone and hating America are a little different. I don’t like America, but can’t recall meeting an American I disliked.

I think my distaste for America comes from different places. Some of it is because I believe in socialism. More of it because, being from Canada, it’s like having a big brother who usually wins at everything(except hockey). And I think their nauseating national pride accounts for the rest of it.[/quote]

So,you don’t hate the people, you hate the country?

I’m sorry, but that makes little sense to me. I don’t hate Iran, but I hate the government’s antiwestern policies and support of terrorist groups. But then again, those are only PARTS of what the Iranian government does. Maybe they have good roads and cheap gasoline. That’s cool.

As for the national pride thing…I have seen WAY more Canadian flag waving overseas than American…but it doesn’t nauseate me. I thinks it’s funny when I talk about Jim Carrey and someone says, “He’s Canadian.” Or when I mention Bret Hart, and someone says, “He’s Canadian.”

Anyway, I assure you, little brother, that there is no conspiracy among the people or government of the USA to ignore you.

:wink: :rainbow:

as for your preference for socialism…

:laughing:

maybe it works with 25 million people, but doubtful for 100million plus.

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Well, I`m one of those Canadians who are goo-goo over America- or those aspects of it that I , in my lefty haze, consider the greatest parts of America, starting with

We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal,that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights , governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it...

The greatest statement of political principles EVER.

Whatever anyone may think of the current administration or some attitudes of some Americans, can you think of any other (plausible) candidate that you`d rather have as Top Dog- the Russians, Chinese, French, Japanese, Germans…

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Golly, a post from someone who isn’t staring at his intestines. :bravo:

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Hate would probably be too strong. And you are right, I don’t even dislike the country itself, it’s a beautiful country. It’s more the politics, their willingness to snub the UN and invade other countries, and the fact that I have met very few people from America who miss an opportunity to tell you that America is the greatest country in the world. These are all very nice people, but they may have been forced to say the pledge or sing America the Beautiful one too many times.

That may be because they wish not to be mistaken for Americans by people who really hate America.

The good old Declaration of Independence, 1776. 78 years later the Republican Party was formed. One of their main objectives was to halt the expansion of slavery. It’s this type of paradox, all too familiar, that causes the bad taste in my mouth. Fast-forward a few hundred years and we find that same party praising itself for its efforts to bring democracy to the world while they tell the Taiwanese people to shut the hell up if they ever mention the word democracy.

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America is overrated by some and over-hated by others.

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[quote]Hate would probably be too strong. And you are right, I don’t even dislike the country itself, it’s a beautiful country.
[/quote]

It is, particularly the Northeastern part in autumn.

uh huh, tell me more

well the UN tends to let The Sudan on the human rights committees and such things as the systematic rape of young African women, not to mention genocide (Rawanda) go unchecked, and be essentially corrupt from top to bottom

[quote]and invade other countries[/quote],
you mean economically or militarily or culturally?

I’ve yet to meet ANY American overseas who says that…and even so, is it wrong to have a positive perception of one’s own country?

Well, to be fair, we do have a lot of sports programs. And I think you mean The Star Spangled Banner. :smiley:

Peace

17

I fucking hate mankind, but America’s OK. It’s just some rocks and dirt and suchlike – trees and grass and rivers and whatnot, after all. What’s to hate?

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sea urchins :fume: :fume: :fume:

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They live in the sea. They don’t count. Plus they taste pretty good, although not a patch on tuna jizz.

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[quote]…
The good old Declaration of Independence, 1776. 78 years later the Republican Party was formed. One of their main objectives was to halt the expansion of slavery. It’s this type of paradox, all too familiar, that causes the bad taste in my mouth. Fast-forward a few hundred years and we find that same party praising itself for its efforts to bring democracy to the world while they tell the Taiwanese people to shut the hell up if they ever mention the word democracy.[/quote]

Well said!!!
:bravo: