To hate America is to hate mankind

Politics International Politics
21

People, I suppose, have something called free will, the power to enact their own feelings of love & hate. But a right to hate? And anyone or thing that one damn well pleases? I suppose back in the primordial daze this might have some relevance other than mere pyschological exercise. But in a civil society, or in those that attempt to attain such a lofty notion, the exercising of hate has lead to the necessity of social conventions. Not only to protect one’s own rights, but to promote responsibility for situations when these very same rights impinge on that of others.

Hating a country has always seemed a little offside to me. Especially in the modern day and age, when countries are no longer defined by that area over in the next valley (where those evil savage non-believers dwell). And especially in the case of America, whose nation is as diverse as it’s contributions to the world.

And on WW2, did not the US basically bankroll Britain, and Russia? Provide forces in strength as early as Summer 1942? Provide the logistical means to invade the continent? Pour cash and basic infrastructure into West Germany? Et cetera.

In any event my hate needs some exercise. Time to take it for a walk. :sunglasses:
“Apollo!.. Zeus!.. Patrol!” :scooby:

22

People are always telling me what they think of America but do they ever wonder what Americans think of them? Ever wonder what 300 million people think of them? To be honest you sound like a bunch of insecure wankers that like to throw stones from your glass houses.

I’m almost in disbelief when I hear from some of the English especially. I seriously think they are bordering on retardation or some weird genetic disorder. The same bitching and whining that they always like firing off at Americans could almost always be pointed back at themselves and their government (current or past), but yet they are always the first dickheads that start shooting of his/her mouth.

The bottom line is even if we had Mother Teresa in the White House you would still hate us and you will continue to hate us until we no longer run the world. I only hope when that day comes my country don’t act like such pansies.

Piece from Mr. Baker current article – Times

23

I shudder at the thought. :wink:

24

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote]Mother Teresa in the White House[/quote]I shudder at the thought. :wink:[/quote]if that happens I’m off to the school book depository window/grassy knoll with my .300 Win mag and a box lunch.

this post should not be considered an endorsement of political assasination and/or an attempt to start a “who killed JFK” thread

25

Also noticably absent from the list of those doing anything about the crisis in Rwanda was the USA. But they were so eager to help out those desparate souls in Iraq, God bless them for that. I just can’t figure out why they’d go to the rescue of Iraq but not Rwanda. I remain in a state [color=red]
o
[/color]f bew
[color=red]il[/color]
derment.

[quote]Quote:
and invade other countries
,
you mean economically or militarily or culturally? [/quote]

Mostly militarily, but sure, economically, too, now that you mention it. Culturally, well, people are given a little more freedom to decide for themselves on that one, and generally not too many people end up dead.

[quote]
And I think you mean The Star Spangled Banner. [/quote]

No, I’m pretty sure I mean America the Beautiful

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!

America! America!
God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassion’d stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness.

America! America!
God mend thine ev’ry flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law.

O beautiful for heroes prov’d
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life.

America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness,
And ev’ry gain divine.

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears.

America! America!
God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea.

26

That song sounds better when played by James Marshall Hendrix

27

If and when you hate a person or a people as a whole, do you feel more confident about yourself, are you better? Is your existance more meaningful, and how? I know alot a scary people from a whole lotta different countries. I’m convinced, every country has it flaws. Are you flawed, how about your neighbor and the rest of the neighborhood?
Don’t Hate.
RESPECT, Mark

28

[quote]Also noticably absent from the list of those doing anything about the crisis in Rwanda was the USA. But they were so eager to help out those desparate souls in Iraq, God bless them for that. I just can’t figure out why they’d go to the rescue of Iraq but not Rwanda. I remain in a state [color=red]
o
[/color]f bew
[color=red]il[/color]
derment.[/quote][/quote]

Rawanda has nothing strategic, so far, for the US to be concerned about. Isn’t it the UN’s job to handle things like this. You can’t on the one hand curse the US for being the world’s policeman, and on the other curse her for NOT being the world’s policeman. And BTW, Europe is closer to Rawanda and wtf did they do?

What about all the other things wrong with the UN?

:

,
you mean economically or militarily or culturally? [/quote]

Mostly militarily, but sure, economically, too, now that you mention it. Culturally, well, people are given a little more freedom to decide for themselves on that one, and generally not too many people end up dead.[/quote]

Come now, Kids all over the world are wearing hiphop fashion. It is only amatter of time before they are tootin pistols and hippin and hoppin and bippin an boppin and shootin their bling blang all over the place…

No, I’m pretty sure I mean America the Beautiful

Yeah, but that isn’t the National Anthem…although it could be. I like it. That or AMazing Grace.

29

Man, you guys are slack on your American culture.

Hendrix played The Star Spangled Banner, NOT ATBeautiful. :unamused:

jdsheesh

30

Probably more than most.

[quote]America! America!
God mend thine ev’ry flaw, [/quote]

I’d be the first to say that the UN is far from perfect, but what’s the solution? Appoint George W as the grand chieftain of the entire universe? I’m thinking as China invests more into its military the US may someday come to appriciate the UN.

They didn’t do a GD thing. But if the US had spent 1/1000 of the time encouraging action in Rwanda that they spent promoting their invasion of Iraq, it’s very possible someone would have listened.

But I feel very free in cursing them for being biased, racist, corrupt policemen.

31

I think the British government is especially retarded. I’d give up my passport if it wasn’t so convenient to travel around on.
However, it seems that whatever converstations I enter into about th US are the ones started by Americans themselves and it’s usually about how damn great they are - how they are so powerful, so richly diverse, so much better than every other country in the world and it drives me nuts to have to listen to it everytime I meet a “new” American. I also have to listen about how shit my country is and have all the things that are wrong with it pointed out to me. There are certain Americans here that do this frequently to me - their repeated one sided conversations boring me to tears but I’m just too polite to say anything as usual.

Millions and millions and millions of people hate America - it’s probably the most hated country in the world - ever. Many of those people hate America so much they are willing to kill theselves in order to inflict some damage to it. Most of these people are from Middle Eastern areas.

Now I bet these people don’t hate America because it is successful or feel inferior - anyone who does is being silly.
Perhaps if America spent some time looking into some of the reasons why it is hated so much instead of making up silly reasons like “…oh, you’re just inferior…,” then perhaps America might make some progress in being liked.

Many people don’t distinguish a government from a land - from their point of view they are the same. I hate the US government and its policies with a passion, but I don’t hate Americans, the land or those sweet and sour sachets you get with Chicken McNuggets.

No, what happened was that the US milked Britain for all it was worth. Only after the Germans withdrew from attacking the UK to concentrate on the Russian front and the UK went into Europe did the US start supplying weapons in any substantial amount.

Oh. Well thanks. The battle of Britain was already won. The US was at war with Japan and thus Germany.
Even the amount of weapons supplied were too few. Let’s not forget that the UK wasn’t forced into war - it volunteered. America was attacked and was left little choice about joiming the conflict. With all the manufacturing capability of an unbombed America it was again in the US’s own interests to supply arms to it’s allies as it now too, was at war in Europe.

Let’s not forget about the huge technology transfer from Britain to America during the war years and how much America benefitted from this in the early post war years industry wise.

[quote]Isn’t it the UN’s job to handle things like this. You can’t on the one hand curse the US for being the world’s policeman, and on the other curse her for NOT being the world’s policeman.
[/quote]

Erm…no…you can. The US takes it up on itself to police the world.
“We have the technology to do this…that…the other…we can park an aircraft carrier of any coast in the world and there is nothing they can do about it…blah…blah…blah…blah…” If you aspire to be the worlds policeman then don’t moan about it when people see you as it an expect you to do something.

32

[quote]But I feel very free in cursing them for being biased, racist, corrupt policemen.[/quote]Consider the company this puts you in.

33

Is this an example of your politeness. I have my doubts about this. Americans are generally very keen to avoid discussions of politics and religion. AND given all the terrorist nonsense, I would be highly surprised if a lot of Americans were trumpeting American anything especially since half hate George Bush. Just to make you feel justified in your views though I would be happy to confirm that I think that your country is shit… :laughing:

I sincerely doubt that this is true. I think that many people may “claim” to hate America but there is a very big difference between the usual posturing and true, underlying hatred. Most of it is juvenile posturing in my view. You are engaging in a bit of this yourself here. Have a bad day? Go online and hate America. It reminds me of the Americans who used to hate the Japanese with an insane passion during the 1980s. It is fear of globalization in many cases of change and this is superimposed on the actions of one nation. Now, that nation is the US but I am confident that we can soon pass on the fears and anxieties of the world’s nattering classes to China and good luck to them with that.

I would say that such actions are more an indictment of the dysfunctionalism of the region rather than to anthing that America deserves.

They hate America because they have been brainwashed into doing so by governments that are keen to deflect criticism for their own inept failings. Witness how well Hitler was able to instill this hatred into Germans. Witness how many Taiwanese, Koreans and Chinese “hate” Japanese because of what their history books have taught them. The difference is that despite these brainwashed hatings, the level of nihilism is no where near what it is in the Middle East. No one or few East Asians are willing to die to hurt Japan though many Koreans like to get drunk and fight with the police.

I do not care who or what likes or dislikes us. Our government should stick to wise policies. Want proof that these policies are wise? despite the fact that the “world hates us” so much, no government has risen to band together to fight us. Strangely, the opposite is true. We are courted the world over for our security guarantees. Strange. How does one explain that?

Which policies do you hate? Please specify which ones you hate and why so we can address your “concerns.”

Care to post information to that effect? I hear this from may resentful Brits. I have never seen any evidence that the US “milked” Britain for all its worth. In fact, quite the contrary. Would you like to examine the records of the Lend Lease program? In the meantime, I will humbly wait your evidence to support such an assertion.

This is quite funny. Care to explain how the UK “went into” Europe AFTER the Germans ceased attacking the UK to concentrate on Russia?

The battle of Britain was won by the British air force for the most part but how did all those supplies get in during that particular period and what kind of credits were extended? Is this how the US was “milking” Britain for all its worth? This is one of those hoary little chestnuts that gets bandied about a great deal in middle England but it never can stand on its feet factually. If it can, I would be happy to see the “evidence.” Otherwise, you are just spouting views that you have been “brainwashed” into believing by hanging out no doubt in pubs with ruffian types who are “resentful.” haha

Why not give us the figures and let us determine what was too few. Especially in contrast to the total arms being supplied.

Oh, is that how you view the invasion of Poland? and then… nothing… until the following summer when Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and France were invaded? and then? Retreat?

How did being attacked by Japan translate into involvement in Europe?

Yes.

Haha. That is one of your standard gripes isn’t it? So fire away about that one engine design that was supposedly stolen. This is tedious and tiresome and you need to lay off this already. Even if that one design was “stolen” you are talking about something that occurred 60 years ago when you were not even alive. Since then, your subway has been bombed by Muslim terrorists and the Irish had a field day in London throughout much of the 1970s and 1980s and I do not hear you going on and on about them. This is why I find so much of this “hatred of America” so ludicrously irrational. Anyone who ever believed that the Enlightenment would deliver an education to the masses to ensure that they were rational thinking beings would have to read your remarks with great despair.

Yes, and would you prefer that we do not. Recall the British Trucial States treaty obligations which were passed to whom at the request of whom and for what purpose?

So you are saying that we are OBLIGATED to act every single time any single person or nation demands that we do so? This is why I am so scornful of charity work. No one really appreciates the effort and soon the “demands” are being laid that whatever you are doing is never enough. For someone who comes from a nation that played that role very well for the better part of three centuries, I would have thought that you would have been able to appreciate our position a bit more. That you cannot is only a sad indictment of your bar-room biased views on the matter.

Do prove me wrong with all those statistics though. I have been bored with the usual rants in other posts and look forward to devoting my FULL attention to taking you on with regard to whatever you decide to supply as “evidence.” I will look forward with great relish to discussing this in much greater detail.

34

Nice post Fred. As a Brit myself, I know that we did the world building/ruling bit, just as the Romans, Greeks etc had done before us. Out of such Empires comes some good and some bad, depends on which side of the fence you are sitting. As fence sitting is not your forte, I assume that you believe strongly in most of what the US government does just (I know you want it to go further!)as there are those who also blindly believe that all the US does is bad. The truth as always will be somewhere in between. The problem is, when you put yourself up as the best of the best of the best and challenge any who challenge your throne or differ from your view, you set yourself up for a fall, and nothing is surer than the fall of the US Empire as we know it at sometime or another (not daying I’d be happy, just the truth, especially as you are bankrolled by the Saudi’s Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese and Koreans!!), unless the US destroys everyone and everything in order to make sure no one takes over the mantle of ‘World’s policeman’ and number 1 as has happened time and time again.

35

I certainly don’t want to join in on this debate, but I can’t help but want to post a letter to the editor of a Canadian newspaper I just read. It nicely sums up the view of many Canadians.

[quote]North Korea’s a crazy neighbour, but so is the U.S.
By Bill Prestwich, Dundas
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jul 8, 2006)

Re: ‘A job for the UN’ (Editorial, July 6)

Your editorial regarding the North Korean missile tests asks what do you do with a crazy neighbour who throws rocks.

Well, what do you do with a crazy neighbour who throws napalm, cluster and bunker buster bombs, cruise missiles, carcinogenic and environmentally destructive Agent Orange, depleted uranium and nuclear weapons?

Unlike the missiles in question, which have harmed no one, these have killed and maimed millions of innocent people around the world who have never lifted a finger against the United States.

And what do you do with a crazy neighbour whose interference in neutral Cambodia unleashed the worst holocaust since the Second World War?

What do you do with a crazy neighbour who armed and helped organize the very Taliban now fighting young Canadians, and who encouraged Islamic terrorism when it suited its purposes?

With the United States’ track record, any nation would be crazy not to try to develop a nuclear deterrent. I now await the inevitable cries of “anti-Americanism” by those colonial Canadians who pledge allegiance to Washington.
[/quote]

(My Google News Alert on depleted uranium pulled it in.)
Poor Canada. Having the misfortune of being a protectorate of the world’s biggest bully…

36

Man, you guys are slack on your American culture.

Hendrix played The Star Spangled Banner, NOT ATBeautiful. :unamused:

jdsheesh[/quote]

I was being facetious.
And how do YOU know he never played’em all?
I smell an anti-Marshall conspiracy…
Typical, can never let a Jacobean out of one’s sight, before they’re up to no good… Shpcking, Shocking :noway: :wink:

And since when has anything out of the NorthWest been refered to as “American Culture”?

37

[quote]

No, what happened was that the US milked Britain for all it was worth. Only after the Germans withdrew from attacking the UK to concentrate on the Russian front and the UK went into Europe did the US start supplying weapons in any substantial amount.[/quote]
So they didn’t get there fast enuff. Waited till the proof was in the pudding, and for the whole trickle down logistical effect that it took with the ways & means at that point in history .

[quote]

[quote]Oh. Well thanks. The battle of Britain was already won. The US was at war with Japan and thus Germany.
Even the amount of weapons supplied were too few. Let’s not forget that the UK wasn’t forced into war - it volunteered. America was attacked and was left little choice about joiming the conflict. With all the manufacturing capability of an unbombed America it was again in the US’s own interests to supply arms to it’s allies as it now too, was at war in Europe.[/quote][/quote]

Why is Britian so paramount to the analysis? And the Battle of Britian was won by a multitide of nationalities fighting for the RAF! And This is off topic, but yes Britian ( as a populace) WAS forced into the war! Are you telling me that the British people voted, or even elected to defend Poland? America joined the war in Europe becuse it made little sense not to, given the already mushrooming financial commitment, and the fact that Hitler opted to declare war on the US. Which was surely his biggest mistake, even more so than invading Russia.

38

‘America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.’
‘America had often been discovered before Columbus, but it had always been hushed up.’
If this is what Oscar Wilde thought back then, who am I to argue!

39

thanks.

The British empire did more to bring civilization to the world than any other empire. Give America another 100 years of so to try to catch up to your absolutely sterling record.

Yet, the overall record stands as an indictment of that nation and its efforts. I think that Britain will get an A+.

That is certainly true.

The difference is that I try to use an objective standard rather than basing all my views on how I “feel.” The US has done some bad things but when put into context, I think the overall good far outweights the overall bad and no nation is going to stop its citizens or politicians from doing something that will have negative consequences. The key is to look at the motivating factors and whether the nation in question attempts to redress any injustices that it has committed intentionally or unintentionally. Also, we need to look at competing forces that restrict the nation in question from acting with always moral purity. The existence of the Soviet Union and the al Qaeda and other Islamofascists means that this is not a pollyanna world that we lived in or live in. Therefore, some ugly realities will have to be faced from time to time.

Perhaps, but I think that the “truth” is often far closer to one of these positions than the other.

Yes, but yawn… Ultimately, no grouping of nations has risen to counter the US just as really very few nations rose up to challenge the British unlike past empires. This is however even truer in the case of the US and its benign “empire.” When and if you see nations banding together to stand against the US, you may have a point. Until then…

The British did not do that and I expect that the US will need not do that either. The question has always been whether the Germans had the “right” to “rise up” if it meant subjugating other nations. I imagine the same question will come up with regard to China and a resurgent Russia. The question then becomes of whether it is right or good for a nation like the US to try to stop such behavior. I think most people barring the ones in the respective aggressor nations themselves would be pro-US in its efforts to stop these tendencies.

That is why for all the shrill invective of the left, not one of their national governments (Western) has made any move to counter the US which can only underline the fact that not one of these nations really sees it as a threat. Rather, we get frequent “demands” from these nations about what we need to do and how we need to address their security threats. Ironic when you think about it isn’t it? The US has been so generous and open about including “diverse narratives” in its national strategic policy formation that, really, the debate over Iraq and whether to invade almost took on a domestic atmosphere. Germans, French, British, Italians, and others actually believed that they had the “right” to question American policy and “demand” that their voices be heard. How does that sound for a bully? empire? hegemon? Quite a laugh when you think about it really.

Again, the US will one day pass away like “Ninevah and Tyre” but will that be a good thing? Arguably, the British supremacy from 1815 to 1914 was one of the best periods ever in the word, particularly if you were a member of some formerly downtrodden group with no rights. The fact that Britain was able to hang on to its empire until really the mid-1970s just goes to show how few of its colonies really viewed it as a threat. Other than the Mau Mau rebellion and the Malaya insurgency, where really did Britain have to fight? It is unfortunate that the US has neither the vision nor the personnel to make that similar effort possible. Quite frankly the American people simply do not have the patience and strategic vision for such an undertaking. But at the end of the day, given the level of vitriol directed against the US and its efforts, I have to really wonder why we should? Why not let these ignorant savages (including Western intellectuals) stew in their own juices and be damned to them? It is hard to argue that “saving” them is an important foreign policy goal.

40

How soon we forget. :slight_smile:

"The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

[b]For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:[/b]

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

[b]For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
[/b]
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
– The Declaration of Independence, 1776