[quote=“oh hut”]Just had to post the fact that none of the 10% SVC (I assume this means Service Charge on the bill) goes to servers (or kitchen staff). An employee of 5 years at Dan’s tells me she has never received any of it, and that she was told the money is used to pay for staff’s wages, and oddly enough, “tax”.
I’m sure DR’s isn’t the only place that charges the SVC and doesn’t give it to the servers as tips.
A bit deceptive, isn’t it? :loco: Fraudulent, actually. I’ve never come across a company that tacks on an extra charge to pay for the staff’s wages. That’s called overhead.
Someone out there from Dan Ryan’s who can set the record straight? If you want to rip people off, why not just increase the prices on your already overpriced menu, rather than leave the impression we are paying a gratuity?[/quote]
Um, if it’s going to “pay for staff’s wages,” and waiters/waitresses are staff…
Yeah, but the 10% is meant to be a gratuity…Maybe 7-11 should add a “service charge” to pay for their staff’s wages. No - staff’s hourly wages come out of a company’s overhead and profit - it’s not passed on to the customer as a “service charge”.
Main Point: No big deal, it’s just deceptive to give the customer the impression they have left something extra for the waiter/floorstaff.
If someone actually did feel the service was good, and had the urge to tip, they wouldn’t tip at Dan’s because it appears to be taken care of in the “Service Charge”. That’s what a service charge is.
Myth: A 10% gratuity charge will be deducted from your bill
Fact: A 10% charge will be added to your bill and applied to company’s general revenue
Again, whatever. It’s just shady. Establishments that have an “AUTO GRAT” policy normally (by law in many countries) pass those earnings on to the staff as tips (i.e. on top of hourly wage). It’s reward for working hard. The more business that comes in or returns, the more one can earn. It’s incentive.
Wait a second. Appalling service in so many Taipei restaurants. No tips or incentives. Hmmm.
I would pay for that 10% SVC, if they can serve decent foods and drinks to meet that standard. Their foods are just ok. ironically their drinks are more horrible! :raspberry: Only two shitty draughts, miller and bodd’s, shabby Guinness bottle from Malaysia. IMHO, they don’t deserve that 10% tip.
Why are you singling out Dan Ryan’s for this? This is a common practice among most of the larger western-style joints in Taiwan. How many have you been to? I’ve always known the kids never see that money and as you say the money is used for the “staff’s wages” so it is being used to pay for service. I feel bad for the kids who have the jobs that typically pay $NT100 an hour. If they do a good job I give them an extra tip directly, doesn’t have to be much. If it’s the usual Taiwanese uneven service from three waiters I don’t, but often some kids bust their butt to give you better than average and friendly service, hense the meaning of tips (To Insure Prompt Service). For less than the cost of a lousy extra beer I can make a real difference in a waiter’s night who went out of their way to give better service.
Is it? I cannot speak for other establishments but that’s not what we do. Tips are earned by the hard work of the individual waiter/waitress/bartender and as far as I am concerned those tips belong to them.
Mods: isn’t there a “Tipping in Taiwan” thread somewhere where tipping can be discussed?
I’m all for tips but employers should pay waiters and waitresses decent wages instead of sub-standard wages so their workers don’t have to grovel themselves for an extra buck.
Who says that you have to tip for good service? Isn’t that part of the job?
Also, tips are good if the servers share them with the busboys and dishwashers in the back at the end of the day.
[quote]Shouldn’t it be Tips Ensure Prompt Service?
Cheers,
Bob Marshall
General Manager
Carnegie’s Taipei[/quote]
So without the tip, the service suffers?
Tips are for service above and beyond the call of duty. Taking my order and bringing the food (and being available for another round) does not constitute exceptional service deserving of a gratuity.
No to tipping without exceptional service.
Tipping is a barbaric, exploitative, and illogical custom we got suckered into in the West, that I am happy does not seem to exist in most of the East. If the boss paid waiters a living wage (that is, more than the 2 to 3 dollars an hour in most places in North America), they wouldn’t have to beg for money from their customers. A 15% increase in prices on the menu to make up the difference would at least be honest.
It’s also grossly unfair, as anyone who’s worked both sides of the fence in the service industry can attest. Waiters get tipped, but what about the busboys, dishwashers, cashiers, cooks? In many restaurants the policy is that the waiters have to split a percentage of their loot at the end of the night with the rest of the staff, but it’s usually peanuts compared to what the waiter gets - 10% thrown to fry cook like scraps thrown from the table to a dog. I mean, logically, you should be tipping the cook, not the waiter, because if I tip I get better service, right? I want better food, screw the service (I can pour my own glass of water, thank you).
And why is that only certain professions get tipped? You tip the taxi driver, but do you tip your bus driver, or one of the guys running the MRT? You don’t tip the server in the drive-thru. You don’t tip at the dry cleaners. Sometimes in some places you tip a cop for good personal service, but we call that what it is - a bribe. Tipping is a waiter demanding a bribe from the customer, or else the customer isn’t going to get good service. There is a word for that and that word is extortion. How many other jobs is it so common for a worker to be bribed before he or she will gruntingly perform the job he or she was hired to do?
[quote=“wolf_reinhold”][quote]Shouldn’t it be Tips Ensure Prompt Service?
Cheers,
Bob Marshall
General Manager
Carnegie’s Taipei[/quote]
So without the tip, the service suffers?
Tips are for service above and beyond the call of duty. Taking my order and bringing the food (and being available for another round) does not constitute exceptional service deserving of a gratuity.
No to tipping without exceptional service.[/quote]
Thank you for taking that quote out of context, Mr. Reinhold thus making it sound as if I demand tips on behalf of the people who work here.
In Taiwan? Never. It’s not the custom here, and I don’t want to make it into an expectation.
In the US? Always. It’s pretty much required in the US. If you don’t tip, the waiters get practically nothing in take-home pay, and your service will be bad the next time you come in. Tip 15% for standard service, 10% for substandard, and a penny for dreadful service. A penny is the biggest insult of all - it’s worse than leaving nothing.
Do I agree with the American tipping system? Absolutely not. It should be optional, as tipping is supposed to be theoretically, and the servers should be paid a decent wage instead of the sub-minimum they get paid.
Tipping is also common in Latin America, but the rate is 10% (as it used to be in the US until about 25 years ago when “they” changed it to 15%).
In India, “tips” are given before the service. It’s called baksheesh.
used to work in a university pub, a situation where one would expect the clientele to often have no extra income to dole out. we were actually union, and made a decent wage. if asked, i said tip if you feel it was worth it, and don’t if you think it wasn’t, or can’t really afford it. some people had money and tipped, others rounded up the bill, and others left nothing. i really didn’t care too much which option was chosen, although i’d be lying if i didn’t admit that big tippers got “extra” extra special service. always tried to make sure people left happy. after all, a lot of the customers were my good friends as well.
only thing that ever got to me was people leaving 11 cents on the table after a $130, 6 hour beer fest. if you just rounded up to that amount, fine, but it seemed like a slap to leave it, and i had no problem returning it to the grad students who were also employed by the university :loco:
alll in all, if there’s a situation where i don’t feel like tipping the “normal” 15% (or more?), i tend to just go up to the bar myself for another pint, and toss a few coins in the jar. i have no problem with it, you get to meet the bartender (who can make your night if you are going to tip), and the wait is usually significantly less.
What would constitute “exceptional service”? Isn’t it very subjective? E.g. some may consider a waiter at your table every 5 minutes exceptional service while others may consider it intrusive (pushy).
A discussion of exceptional service in Taipei is absurd - it doesn’t exist (except maybe at some of the roadside foodstalls and motorcycle repair shops).
If I could just get standard service I’d be thrilled. However, as with many places in the world where pay for servers is low, tipping is not common, and the skill isn’t appreciated, Taipei’s service industry has no incentive.
If I could just (to name a few) :
A) be offered another drink when mine is empty
B) get the bill without having to get up and ask for it
C) GET MY MEAL AT THE SAME TIME AS MY PARTNER DOES (applies only to western style dining)
D) drink a Guinness that is poured properly
I’d be happy to tip. My general experience with servers in Taipei involves totally inexperienced teens leaning against a wall in the distance, twirling their hair with their index finger, staring at the ceiling.
But then again, hey! Paltry wages, inconsequential tips.
I must plug Carnegies here. The service is often great, and is the closest thing to acceptable that I’ve found so far. For ultra (if not “over”) service try Din Tai Fung. Annoying as it may be, your teacup or beer will never be empty.
Tipping is not a Western custom. It is only really practiced in North America as far as the Western world is concerned. I’m not American yet I tip in America. I tip in Thailand although it’s not really part of Thai culture. I would never tip in my own country as it’s not part of the culture. I have however been tipped by travelling Americans in my own country when I worked for a rental car agency. I think really it’s up to the individual.
Bob replies:[quote]
Is it? I cannot speak for other establishments but that’s not what we do. Tips are earned by the hard work of the individual waiter/waitress/bartender and as far as I am concerned those tips belong to them.
Mods: isn’t there a “Tipping in Taiwan” thread somewhere where tipping can be discussed?
Shouldn’t it be Tips Ensure Prompt Service?
Cheers,
Bob Marshall
General Manager
Carnegie’s Taipei [/quote]
My word on that. The 10% service charge is common in Taiwan (esp. Taipei) no real logic behind it but that is how it is done. Some places do not charge it if you pay cash (no real logic behind that). Anyway it is there. I personally always give tips in restaurants (my favorite waiter is Alan Pontes of course) hardly ever in a pub and would be strange to encourage people not to tip and certainly should not be a criteria to get good service. The staff are good to the guests, the guests come more regularly and stay longer, eat and drink more and so the outlet does well, pays good salaries on time and pay bonus salaries on the major holidays, staff are motivated, stay and so on.Depends on the place I suppose as well, on a slow night the staff might have more tips than on a busy night. Trust I have now contributed to Wolf’s thread.
PS: Moderators, thanks for the headband, always wanted one!
Getting your food served at the same time. How many times have you ordered a meal with friends only for the meals to come at different times. Or you get your food served cold cause it’s served on a cold plate… and damn… I really like luke warm coffee…
Even thats isnt exceptional. It’s damned hard enough to get eating utensils before the food is served.
AS for tipping, why should I tip when most places already have a 10% service charge to beef up the bill for lousy service?