Trading Races

Discussion Open Forum
21

[quote][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“jdsmith”]

A: I’m from whitebread America. The percentage of blacks in my high school was much less than the 12% of blacks in the USA; in the military, it was more like 60/40 white, but…and this gets into B) see below; in Taiwan, I’m clearly in the minority, so I feel any weirdness or discomfort is theirs not mine…[/quote]So, it’s just a mental thing for you, right?[/quote]

Hmm, mental? I don’t know. Race as a mental thing? Hmm. When I was in Japan we we go into bars that were “Japanese ONLY” for fun. Race was a joke. So, is it a mental thing? No. But in MY personal experience, race has never been a large part of who I am. That may not be true for others, of my race of other races.

[quote]Did you ever invite those blacks to join you? Or just hang out with them to see why they ‘only’ went to soul bars. This is a reminder of the high school lunchroom. The blacks at one table and the whites at another. Jocks,cheerleaders, nerds, etc . As a black in all white situations, I often felt that I was to assimilate myself into ‘their’ world, i.e. enjoy topics they enjoyed talking about, listen to music that ‘they’ were comfortable with. I could count on one hand how many whites have met that have actually related to me as me and not through skin color first.
[/quote]

Why would I do that? Why would I go up to a guy I don’t know, approach him because of his different color and say, “Hey wanna chew some schrooms and watch snowflakes? I mean, cause you’re black,that would be fun for me.” It seems a bit forced, you know? Some prof once asked my class, “How many friends do you have who are black?” I said, “All the blacks students in this school are on a basketball scholarships (which was not totally true, but damn near close) why would I approach them simply because they were black?”

I recall going to several “Black student body” events in college, watching Malcom X vids and South African events things, black poetry readings. Not once did a member of the largely black audience come up to me and welcome me. I suspected because I was white. But I didn’t care. I was concerned about the same issues and wanted to learn more.

But, really, for ME, it was a human affair, not a racial one. I could only sympathise, but not empathise with the wrongs of the past. Whites in my historical time frame have wrong themselves (read slavery, KKK and anticivil rights movements) more than they have been wronged by other races.

That is just my experience.

Sometimes we funny too. :wink:

I’m proud of who I am, but not what I look like.

Race just doesn’t matter to me. What someone has to bring to the table is more important than race.

jdsoulman

22

I visited Belize city some ten or fifteeen years ago and, against the advice of everyone, went for a walk around town at night. White people don’t do that in Belize city generally unless they are feeling a tad suicidal. Anyway I only walked about 500 meters or so before coming to a church and thinking that, surely, a church would be safe enough, stepped inside. Of course, everyone was suprised to see a white face. Nothing odd in that. Not many white faces in Belize city. It was not just suprise though that I observed, it was embarrasement, or more precisely, shame.

The topic of the evenings sermon was the origin of evil which, the pastor went on to explain after an awkward pause, was white people. As an example of this evil he had photos of a group of gay white men engaed in acts of sexual intercourse, one with the other, in a long connected chain that eventually formed a circle. Several people in attendance walked out.

True story. Signifying nothing.

23

I know. This man is a fine example of how funny ‘ya’ll’ can be. :laughing:

24

He must have had ties with the Nation of Islam :unamused: :laughing:

25

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“jdsmith”]
Sometimes we funny too. :wink:
[/quote]

I know. This man is a fine example of how funny ‘ya’ll’ can be. :laughing:[/quote]

Oh my lord. no. no. not him.

try john stewart. :wink:

26

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“jdsmith”]
Sometimes we funny too. :wink:
[/quote]

I know. This man is a fine example of how funny ‘ya’ll’ can be. :laughing:[/quote]

Oh my lord. no. no. not him.

try john stewart. :wink:[/quote]

John stewart isn’t funny, he’s been real real when he tells jokes. :smiley:

27

Reading through here and thinking about it, I’m suddenly aware that some shards of a previous me are still present. I never took to race stuff, that seems a very American discourse. A former Marxist, for me the issue is class. If anyone can escape the expecations of the class they were born into, and I mean that in the broadest sense, that there is one hell of a step.

HG

28

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Reading through here and thinking about it, I’m suddenly aware that some shards of a previous me are still present. I never took to race stuff, that seems a very American discourse. A former Marxist, for me the issue is class. If anyone can escape the expecations of the class they were born into, and I mean that in the broadest sense, that there is one hell of a step.

HG[/quote]

True, but class and race are tied together, or was, in America. Think about it. In India, many people who are ‘resigned’ to living a life that they don’t want because when they were born someone ‘told’ them that was destiny. :noway: If this converstation really goes somewhere, it will look at all aspects of humanity. Which I really am hoping for.

29

I stepped into a different class than I was born into.

30

To which you “don’t know” :laughing:

31

It’s not just India where people feel pre-destined. To overcome what is the accepted norm in any culture is a noble feat (in my schema, at least).

By the way, in India there is loads of upside to the caste system. It’s not all about roadblocks, there’s also loads of openings. That’s why it’s still there.

One of the reasons I so love Taiwan, and why I still post here despite moving to HK, is the prospects for class mobility. People do reinvent themselves in Taiwan and it is always interesting. Think about this forum, think of the different voices and where they find a medium. I love it.

HG

32

Well thank god for me I dont watch Oprah…

Only in America can you get to have such ghastly shows with this type of thing. Next we can trade places with murderers rapists pedophiles priests nuns and terrorists. Or perhaps handicapped the mentally ill would come in handy too. Better to be psychotic and schitzo too…

Trading races would be rarely fatal I guess…

What insight and experiences would you expect me to to gain? :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Maybe we should just trade sexes as well.

Would racing places make any difference?? I’d still think and act the same way. Would being white make you feel better for awhile… or would electric shock treamtent do it for you? :help: :help:

I’m living in a country to which the language culture and race put me in the minority. No different from you. :noway: :smiley:

Then I marry a minority race of that country. :astonished: :astonished: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

I can’t be a black american or a white american or hispanic american or asian american because I havent lived there to know what either of those are. :wink: :wink:

I’m eccentric enough without having to trade races for a day or a week or a year. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

33

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]It’s not just India where people feel pre-destined. To overcome what is the accepted norm in any culture is a noble feat (in my schema, at least).

By the way, in India there is loads of upside to the caste system. It’s not all about roadblocks, there’s also loads of openings. That’s why it’s still there.

One of the reasons I so love Taiwan, and why I still post here despite moving to HK, is the prospects for class mobility. People do reinvent themselves in Taiwan and it is always interesting. Think about this forum, think of the different voices and where they find a medium. I love it.

HG[/quote]

Hmm :ponder: We’re speaking the same language comrade, but I wonder if Taiwan is still that place you remember? I think the slowing of the economy in recent years has dealt a serious blow to some of the social mobility you are talking about here HG (which I too have fond memories of). The industrial working class has been gutted - all the factories have been taken to over to Dalu - and a lot of those step-up jobs people used to take to get ahead (or get their kids ahead) are gone. Christ knows what you do these days if you’re 50, live in Jiayi and have no more than a high school education…

Sorry Nama, back on topic.

34

SatTV - that must get pretty close to your profile, no? :smiley:

35

SatTV - that must get pretty close to your profile, no? :smiley:[/quote]

Sorry Sat, that comment was dumb. It’s late and I’m being a horse’s arse.

GT.

36

SatTV - that must get pretty close to your profile, no? :smiley:[/quote]

Sorry Sat, that comment was dumb. It’s late and I’m being a horse’s arse.

GT.[/quote]

Thats OK GT. I thought it was funny… :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Not yet 50, got slightly more education than high school and don’t live in CHiayi lol

37

A lot of people saying “race is not an issue with me, it’s all about personality and who you are.” Easy to say that when you’re white and come from an average, middle-income family. It’s a different matter when you’re part of a minority group that suffers from overt and covert prejudice, suspicion, racism and mistreatment.

Moreover, while many blacks, native-americans and aborigines live healthy, happy, stable lives, obtain higher-education, high-paying employment, are happily married and good parents, seemingly interacting with ease in a wide variety of social settings without race becoming an issue, a larger percentage of such people don’t enjoy such privilege. For a variety of reasons, a far larger percentage of blacks, native-americans and aborigines, as compared to white people, suffer from drug or alcohol abuse, poverty, crime, welfare, imprisonment, illiteracy, single-parent families and other facts that make it harder to live that healthy, happy life (they also have shorter life expectancies to show for it).

So, while it’s nice to pretend that race doesn’t matter, that we’re all living in an idealized John Lennon world (as in “Imagine”) of brothers and sisters, race still matters. White folks still get a better deal. In response to namahottie’s question, as a white man I might find it interesting being black or indian for a while, but I know my life is probably easier because I’m white. Of course, I don’t condone that, but just telling it like it is.

[quote=“Satellite TV”] Well thank god for me I don’t watch Oprah…

Only in America can you get to have such ghastly shows with this type of thing. Next we can trade places with murderers rapists pedophiles priests nuns and terrorists. Or perhaps handicapped the mentally ill would come in handy too. Better to be psychotic and schitzo too…

Trading races would be rarely fatal I guess…

What insight and experiences would you expect me to to gain? :slight_smile: :slight_smile: [/quote]

Oprah’s idea isn’t a new one. I remember seeing this book on my father’s bookshelf when I was a kid:


amazon.com/gp/product/045119 … e&n=283155

I never did read it, but I was often tempted to. The book is a classic on race. It’s the story of a guy who did trade races – a white man who darkened his skin with medication and took other measures to pose as a black man, before heading into the Deep South of the US in 1959, as an experiment to see how he would be treated. Not surprisingly, he was treated much worse than as a white man. It might be interesting to see how the experiment would go today.

38

Alot of us don’t hail from the US and, thus, don’t have the same black/white/race issues that Americans might. Consider that the American liberal response as above might not apply to many from other countries where their race relations are different (not necessarily better–different).

I meant what I said: For me, race is basically a non-issue. I feel uncomfortable around those who constantly need to raise it as an issue. I also keep in mind that many of my fellow expats come from different countries and situations, so I am willing to accept their different experiences and relationship with the whole (non)issue of race.

39

Nobody wants to be a [i]real[/i] African? :astonished:

40

Good question (cool avatar TCB btw :wink: ).

Dare I ask, what is a real African? I’m South African, and I was born in Africa… but my skin is white. Does that mean I’m not a real African?

What about Johnny Clegg? He wasn’t even born in Africa, but he knows far more about African culture and history than many “authentic” Africans, not to mention being made an adopted son of a Zulu chief:

"Johnny Clegg was born in England in the 1950s, but his family soon moved to Africa where he grew up first in Zimbabwe and Zambia, and later in South Africa. A chance encounter with a Zulu street guitarist led him to Zulu culture. He became so caught up in the culture and it’s music that he was eventually made an adopted son of a Zulu chief.

In the early 1970s Clegg teamed up with Sipho Mchunu and as Juluka they made history as they bucked the strict apartheid government by becoming the first mixed-race band to play together on stage. Juluka’s sound melded the predominant Zulu sound with the Celtic callings from Clegg’s origins. Their song “Scatterling of Africa” was released as a single and had some worldwide limited success. After repeated concert shutdowns, and threats because the band angered the then apartheid government, Mchunu retreated to his farm in 1986 and Clegg went on to form a more westernized pop sound with the group Savuka.

In the mid-1990s Clegg and Juluka reformed, with original member Sipho Mchunu, and they toured the world on a bill with King Sunny Ade. " (from hhtp://africanmusic.org)

My point is just that labels are not always inclusive of all possible factors, or very accurate.