Very rare occurence in TAiwan. Dont remember the last time something like this occurred.
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003365447
condolences to the families of the dead .
Because the driver didn’t obey the traffic light and killed five people.
It was sad to say there was a bride to be.
[quote=“tommy525”]Very rare occurence in TAiwan. Dont remember the last time something like this occurred.
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003365447
condolences to the families of the dead .[/quote]
Very rare? Not exactly the same but. . .
[quote]17 die, 156 injured in Alishan train crash
Sunday, Mar 02, 2003[/quote]
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … /02/196427
Not that that takes anything away from this latest tragedy, though.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“tommy525”]Very rare occurence in TAiwan. Dont remember the last time something like this occurred.
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003365447
condolences to the families of the dead .[/quote]
Very rare? Not exactly the same but. . .
[quote]17 die, 156 injured in Alishan train crash
Sunday, Mar 02, 2003[/quote]
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … /02/196427
Not that that takes anything away from this latest tragedy, though.[/quote]
Yes both very tragic indeed. What I meant was rare was a Train Collision in TAiwan. Some countries , notably INdia seem to suffer these fairly regularly, but Taiwan has for the most part been able to avoid collisions between trains. They use a Japanese signalling and hand over system that has, until now, worked well. I understand that this was a non scheduled test, and therefore insufficient attention was paid to it. INsufficient attention causes tragedy.
negligent train operator at fault, given a demerit and transferred. I think he is heading for jail for five years as well (causing death as a professional driver).
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003365595
he was driving like an A-hole. Ignorring warning signals and in full knowledge his train Anti collision equipment had already failed and yet was driving at near full speed, shooting past the first warning light. Gee, cant figure why an experienced train operator would turn into the proverbial idiot ?
This scared me a lot since my GF travels between Yilan and Taipei every day. My thoughts go out to the people involved.
[quote] The Taiwan Railway Administration (TRA) confirmed yesterday that the train crash near Dali (大里) Train Station, Ilan County, on Friday morning was the result of driver error.
TRA secretary general Chang Ying-huei (張應輝) said yesterday that Huanglin Chung-liang (黃林忠良), the driver conducting trial operations on the two locomotives that hit the commuter train, was
found to have driven through two warning signals in a row
after the Automatic Train Protection (ATP) system on his locomotive had been identified as not working.
Based on the information retrieved from data recorders on the locomotives, Huanglin was operating at 90kph.
To avoid the crash, the driver was supposed to reduce speed to 60kph upon seeing the first warning signal and come to a complete halt upon seeing the second one. Instead, he only began applying the brakes after he saw the second signal. Even though he managed to slow the train to 45kph, his actions failed to stop the two locomotives running in tandem from crashing into the cars of the commuter train.
The administration announced that Huanglin had been given a demerit and would be transferred from his current position. Four supervisors at mechanical engineering divisions in Chidu (七堵) also received demerits because of the accident.
The accident led to the death of five passengers and injured 18, the TRA said yesterday.[/quote]
Wow, this collosal fuckup kills 5 people and is given a demerit and a transfer? What is this, boarding school?
Try negligent homicide.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote] The Taiwan Railway Administration (TRA) confirmed yesterday that the train crash near Dali (大里) Train Station, Yilan County, on Friday morning was the result of driver error.
TRA secretary general Chang Ying-huei (張應輝) said yesterday that Huanglin Chung-liang (黃林忠良), the driver conducting trial operations on the two locomotives that hit the commuter train, was
found to have driven through two warning signals in a row
after the Automatic Train Protection (ATP) system on his locomotive had been identified as not working.
Based on the information retrieved from data recorders on the locomotives, Huanglin was operating at 90kph.
To avoid the crash, the driver was supposed to reduce speed to 60kph upon seeing the first warning signal and come to a complete halt upon seeing the second one. Instead, he only began applying the brakes after he saw the second signal. Even though he managed to slow the train to 45kph, his actions failed to stop the two locomotives running in tandem from crashing into the cars of the commuter train.
The administration announced that Huanglin had been given a demerit and would be transferred from his current position. Four supervisors at mechanical engineering divisions in Chidu (七堵) also received demerits because of the accident.
The accident led to the death of five passengers and injured 18, the TRA said yesterday.[/quote]
Wow, this collosal fuckup kills 5 people and is given a demerit and a transfer? What is this, boarding school?
Try negligent homicide.[/quote]
its not over. Theres a five year possible jail sentence for killing someone in an accident for professional drivers.
Cuz this is Taiwan and in Taiwan “professional” does not mean the same thing that it means in more developed nations.
I’ve noticed that long ago regarding the practice of law. In the US, law is a three-year post-grad degree that involves not just heavy reading and memorization, but the ability to analyze cases, think for oneself, and engage in spontaneous logical discussions when called upon in class. In Taiwan, law is just an undergrad degree and I believe it’s only a matter of memorization, without the analysis and logical discussion (socratic method). Overwhelmingly, it’s been my observation that Taiwan lawyers are far less able to closely examine the facts in a case, study the law, evaluate all the possible issues, and explain it in a careful detailed manner. US and UK lawyers do that all the time.
Then one day in the gym I started chatting with an airline pilot from the US who works for a local carrier, and he basically told me the same thing about pilots – that US trained pilots are far superior and Taiwan-trained pilots tend to have a chabuduo approach and an inability to perform at the very careful, precise, detail-oriented level that is expected of good pilots. Consequently, he explained, there was an incident a few years ago (I forget the details) where a local airline fired a large percentage of its locally-trained pilots and replaced them with foreign pilots.
We all know the same is true of politicians in Taiwan – that there are very few true professional politicians, who are bright, skilled, competent, in control of their emotions, and able to work in a productive manner to bring about positive changes. While many politicians in the West are buffoons, just like those in Taiwan, at least in the West there are also a large number of highly skilled, professional politicians.
I suspect the same holds true, in general, for physicians, dentists, train engineers and all sorts of other “professionals.” The standards just aren’t the same. It will take time for Taiwan to develop a broadly skilled and competent professional class.
[quote=“wisher”]
It was sad to say there was a bride to be.[/quote]
I hardly see how it would be any different for a bride to be to die than anyone else.
[quote=“SuchAFob”][quote=“wisher”]
It was sad to say there was a bride to be.[/quote]
I hardly see how it would be any different for a bride to be to die than anyone else.[/quote]
Drama sugar, just drama.
SuchAFOB wrote: [quote]I hardly see how it would be any different for a bride to be to die than anyone else.[/quote]
Well, death is especially sad when the person is young and never had a shag.
Well, death is especially sad when the person is young and never had a shag.[/quote]
How quaint! Which universe do you live in?
could be wisher thinks the bride to be was going to miss out on counting her wedding hong bao. I can understand that.
Well, death is especially sad when the person is young and never had a shag.[/quote]
On the other hand, if the victim was about to embark on marriage, it could be the accident saved her a lifetime of misery. 
How long ago was this? My brother in law’s a pilot for CAL and, along with all the other trainees in his intake, did his training in Brisbane, just like pilots everywhere flying that type of jet, doing all the same tests and exams as the other trainees and being taught, tested and examined by the same instructors as everyone else had.
It is my understanding/experience that thinking for oneself is not a trait that Taiwanese possess. They are trained from a very young age not to think for themselves but to follow whatever program that they are installed with… My dealing with Taiwanese people at work is a proof of that.
How long ago was this? My brother in law’s a pilot for CAL and, along with all the other trainees in his intake, did his training in Brisbane, just like pilots everywhere flying that type of jet, doing all the same tests and exams as the other trainees and being taught, tested and examined by the same instructors as everyone else had.[/quote]
I’ll try to find out more. Maybe I’ll even start going to the gym again so I can see the pilot again and ask him (I saw him there not too long ago). As I said, I don’t recall the details, but I am certain last Summer I ran into a pilot from Texas, caucasian, US-citizen, Vietnam vet, who is a captain (pilot) based in Taipei. I am certain he told me about an incident where a local airline laid off a bunch of locals and replaced them with foreign/foreign-trained pilots because, as he put it, the local pilots’ skills are inferior (in particular their abilities to observe closely, analyze, think, evaluate, discuss concerns, etc), because they learned through rote memorization and got less of other approaches.
I recall that clearly because it really struck me at the time – I had felt the same way about lawyers and I found it fascinating to hear an experienced professional in a completely different field with exactly the same types of observations about his field.
I’m not sure but he may have been speaking of Singapore Airlines. Apparently they laid off 600 in 2003 due to decreased travel due to SARS, and by Nov 2003 the news was reporting that they have:
taipeitimes.com/News/worldbiz/ar … 2003075016
While those pilots may have been laid off for financial reasons, it is possible the airline/s intentionally made a point of replacing them with foreign-trained pilots. At least thats what I was told by one veteran pilot.
As for your brother-in-law doing his pilot training abroad, perhaps that’s not enough. Perhaps being born into a culture where one is expected to always follow instructions and never question superiors, and all of ones education in primary school, high school and college is based on rote memorization, where one is taught to memorize, obey, and keep your mouth shut, that basic instinct can’t be overcome through a relatively brief post-graduate pilot training abroad. Maybe by that time one has already learned sloppy, ineffectual habits that make it difficult to later become a careful, precise independent thinker, skilled at critical analysis, evaluation and challenging of assumptions (and superiors) when necessary. I don’t know; I’m just repeating what that pilot told me.
How long ago was this? My brother in law’s a pilot for CAL and, along with all the other trainees in his intake, did his training in Brisbane, just like pilots everywhere flying that type of jet, doing all the same tests and exams as the other trainees and being taught, tested and examined by the same instructors as everyone else had.[/quote]
Ok, not exactly what the pilot told me, but related.
[quote][China Airline’s pilots were largely drawn from the ranks of the republic’s air force, and they tended to fly like air force pilots, taking chances they needn’t take.
China Air has been working hard to correct its faults, analysts say. The airline brought in expatriate pilots several years ago as captains to alleviate what had become known as an “ex air-force flying club.” The first few years, the analyst said, were trying. “I talked to one (expatriate) pilot who said ‘you have to remember at all times that the guy in the right-hand seat is trying to kill you.”
It also sent young pilots off to other countries, particularly Australia, “to learn the proper way of flying,” he says, although they were frustrated when they came back because seniority kept them in the co-pilot’s seat. . .[/quote]
link
If two-and-a-half years training to fly a single type of jet is relatively brief, then yeah, I suppose.
And he made full pilot after one year as co-pilot, although he’d been a flight engineer for many years before he did pilot training. So I’m not sure where the frustration part of it comes in.
surrounded all day by all those lovely buttons and you CAN’T PUSH ANY… AAAARGH