Truman should've listened to McArthur

Politics Taiwan Politics
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If Harry Truman had had the foresight to see what would happen in Communist China, he would have let General McArthur push north into Southern China during the Korean War, using a coalition force comprised of Chiang’s army and American soldiers to launch a massive offensive on the Mainland, back before Mao’s power was truly consolidated. Remember, this is the early 1950’s we’re talking about here. At the very least, North Korea could have been wiped off the map, doing the whole world a big favor, and maybe, they could have taken Southern China, returning Chiang to his beloved Shanghai.

Without the supply line running from Southern China into Northern Vietnam, the Viet Minh would have had a hard time defeating the French during the Indochina War. It’s unlikely the Vietnam conflict would have unfolded as it did.

This was one time that the Conservatives were right, and I rarely agree with them. McArthur should have been allowed to attack Mainland China, back when it was a legitimate option and could have done the world some good.

Now, today, we have a foul leftover rogue Communist regime in North Korea that remains a threat to the security of all nations. And, there’s Mainland China, tooting its horn at Taiwan, continuing to oppress and abuse its own people, and continuing to act like a fascist state, especially the way it censors things.

Tiennamen Square was 15 years ago, but what about the whole Falai Gong thing? That was much more recent. I saw a group of Mainlanders outside the UN last fall when I was working there protesting against the Chinese government for what they did. Did you any of you see the pictures? Women raped and beaten, burned with red hot pokers, the pokers were inserted into them, people almost blinded, and for what? Because the government didn’t like people practicing Falai Gong (I apologize if it’s spelled wrong) (And I know about US practices in Iraq, and I condemn those as well, but remember, what the Chinese government did was not in wartime!)

And Taiwan should be a part of country that engages in such practices?

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Of course, we have the benefit of hindsight and perhaps things would have worked out better if the Commies had been fought more aggressively.
MacArthur wanted to nuke numerous Chinese cities. I think Truman made the right decision in sacking General “I shall return.”

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As far as I am aware, Truman made it clear that U.S. forces were not allowed to bomb mainland Chinese cities in fear of an escalation of the war. The Chinese soldiers who fought in the Korean war were technically patriotic “volunteers”. Anyways McArthur did not have the manpower to push into the mainland at all as he wasn’t even able to take the Korean peninsula let alone southern China. Remember it was at this time that the U.S. 7th pacific fleet was used to thwart a mainland invasion of Taiwan, the RoC forces on Taiwan would not have been able to get more than a toehold. Besides, Truman was most adverse against the McArthur’s plan to use nuclear weapons on Chinese cities. This would have guaranteed drawing the Soviet Union into the war (more than it already was) and would certainly have resulted in a greater bloodbath to come with nuclear attacks on Japan and western Europe.

So whats the persecution of Falun Dafa compared to the deaths of untold millions, possibly billions? P.S. Falun Dafa is a cultist organization, the equivalent to a Chinese Church of Scientology.

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A good few million died thanks to Mao anyway.

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I don’t think McArthur should have used nuclear weapons either, but it wasn’t necessary to use them in order to attack Southern China. I agree that attacks on the Mainland would have resulted in an escalation of the war, but a US-Nationalist Chinese occupation of Southern China would have altered history significantly, there is no doubt.

Besides, the Korean War started the idea of fighting “limited wars,” basically fighting to a stalemate instead of fighting to win. Not a way to fight a war. You fight to win, or you don’t fight. Vietnam proved just how successful the limited war strategy was. In that case, America didn’t belong there in the first place (Actually, we should have backed Ho Chi Minh when he proclaimed Vietnamese independence in 1945, in exchange for the rights to send troops to fight the Communist Chinese through Northern Vietnam) Don’t forget, Vietnam and China were longtime enemies, and it was America who helped force Ho into the waiting arms of Mao and his cronies by refusing to support his proclamation of Vietnamese independence.

I sincerely hope that I live to see the day the Chinese Communist Party disintegrates. But I don’t know if I’ll live that long.

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We got our butt kicked by China in North Korea, and with air and naval superiority could do no more than hold the South after that. I’d say the the chances for success of the invasion you describe would have been very very low. In all probability it would have been a complete disaster. Truman would have been completely correct not to listen to such an idea.

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The Korean War didn’t originate the idea of “limited wars”, many of the prior wars in Europe had been political and with clearly defined objectives that didn’t neccessarily include wipeing out the other side. The “limited war” as you put it does not involve any sort of stalemate, but rather simply acheiving an objective and ending it. The Sino-Indian border dispute was one such conflict, as with the Sino-Vietnamese conflict.

A joint running dog collaborationist/imperialist occupation of Southern China would have only changed history in prolonging conflict and creating another modern day Korea scenario. Of course it is the desire of the Yankees to keep China divided even now so as to not endanger American hegemony in asia.

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[quote=“cmdjing”]
A joint running dog collaborationist/imperialist occupation of Southern China would have only changed history in prolonging conflict and creating another modern day Korea scenario. Of course it is the desire of the Yankees to keep China divided even now so as to not endanger American hegemony in Asia.[/quote]
I see those little red books are back in style. How quaint. :unamused: :laughing:

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I don’t want to be a pain in the neck but get the most basic facts right. Most basic fact, North Korea is nowhere near southern China so MacArthur couldn’t have pushed into it. It was northeastern China – Manchuria – that MacArthur though might use a good bombing. Actually he wanted to use nuclear weapons to poison the area along the Yalu river to stop the Chinese resupplying their troops.

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Perhaps I should have phrased things differently. I maintain that McArthur should have invaded Southern China, utilizing Chiang’s army and US soldiers, either in an amphibious assault, or as I said earlier, from Northern Vietnam.

Chinese Nationalist Forces occupied Vietnam in 1945.

Had the US not squandered its opportunity to support Ho Chi Minh in 1945 when he proclaimed independence, it could have been able to launch a massive offensive against China from Northern Vietnam during the Korean War.

Mao Zedong and his party needed to be eradicated, or at the very least, prevented from maintaining control over the whole of Mainland China.
Mao was a tyrannical dictator, and a fool. The same could be said for Chiang Kai-Shek, but if you look at Taiwan today and you look at China, ask yourself, where would you rather live? One is democratic and the other is an oppressive dictatorship.

As for western imperialism, it’s not any worse than Chinese or Japanese imperialism. For many years did China occupy Vietnam, 1000??? What about Tibet? And now they want Taiwan.

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I am not very familiar with Vietnamese history, but . . . . . . since it is known that Vietnam was once part of China . . . . . . . . I am wondering if when the Chinese Nationalist Forces occupied Vietnam in 1945, they proclaimed it as “Vietnam Retrocession Day” ???

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What river should we poison to control the tyranical leader George W. Bush?
Maybe get some old guard C army types to push in with a Northern assault out of Canada? Mobilize the mexicans and do a two-pronged one-two punch?
Also, to the earlier poster who dismissed Iraqi prisoner abuse with the qualifier that “we’re at war”… a war never legitimized int he eyes of the international community I might add. Declared unilaterally, unless you count the coalition of the coerced, bullied and opportunists…

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Thing that always kills me with laughter when you look at the history of those times is the right-wingers in the US who were always going on – especially during Vietnam, about “unleashing Chiang Kai-shek.” Reminds me of the 80th birthday of the Whampoa Academy the other day. Some DPP legislator I saw on TV said “what are these guys so proud about? They lost every battle they ever fought.” I wanted to shake his hand.

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If memory serves me correctly Truman was not afraid of Mc Arthur unleashing nuclear weapons China ending up being wasted but becuase Mc Arthur had a hatred of Communism and wanted to go the whole way to Moscow. At that time their were worries that China could get their hands on the Russians’ nuclear weapons and use these against Korea and the US troops

There was also some grudge between Truman and Mc Arthur, Mc Arthur was a very cut and dry type of person. He knew how to win ( by simplying beating the other guy to a pulp) and would not hold back, while Truman was less willing to go for an all out war against China and Russia.

Actually I believe one order delievered to Mc Arthur that infurated him was that he could bomb only the southern side of the bridges that joined N Korea to China. He essentially though that he was supposed to launch a campaign with one hand tied behind his back.

Mc Arthur made some threat against China in as much as saying if you want to fight then in for a penny then in for a pound. He also came to Taiwan to visit CKS. He felt CKS was a snake but if they could control this snake then CKS could be useful. He went behind Truman’s back to do this.

As regards reinstating CKS to his throne in China, I am not too sure who was the lesser of two evils. At least with Mao, he was clearly the enenmy. However with CKS, he was never an ally and to be honest if I was the USA I could not have trusted him. His motives were power and money, and he had little regard for the people

CKS could have turned China into an even bigger threat to their neighbors than Mao did. He would have in theory being allied with the West against Russia, but on what side of the fence he was really on came down to the amount of money he was getting. With the establishment of two Communist empires, it also offered the chance for the US to play or at least try and play one off the other, else oppurtunities would be created to do this ( Russian support of Ho Chi Minh and the Chinese Vietnamese border war)

And there is no way that China under CKS may have developed the way that Taiwan has today. Much of Taiwan’s development stemmed from the need to protray itself as a democratic society to show up China and from the pressure from the USA. Imagaine telling Emperor CKS the Third, how the ROC should run its shop. Its unlikely they would have the leverage to do this with the ROC being a superpower

Vietnam was part of China for some time period

Viet in Vietnamese means flight or travel of people
Nam means south

Therefore the vietnamese were the people that travelled from China to the south. If you go to Vietnam you will still see the influence of Chinese culture