If more time was spent listening to those who want peace, and realize that peace must include recognizing a Palestinian state, there'd be a much greater chance of a lasting settlement.If wishes were horses, I’d have a ranch.
There’s a huge difference is wanting peace and actively working for it. No one in this equation is working for peace.
[quote=“bigduke6”]What numerous posters also continue to forget is that all this shit started when Israel was formed in 48 and the Arabs attacked.
This was one of three major wars of Arab aggression with the aim of destroying Israel and driving the Jews out of the area. Well we all know what happened. The Israelis destroyed their armies again and again, and now are labelled as aggressors for defending themselves against this aggression to this day.
If the situation was reversed and the Arabs won one of the wars, would anyone be crying out in the defense of the Israelis?
And what about the Jews expelled from Arab countries who had their property stolen with no repatriation?
Not a peep.[/quote]
And, when you count the number of Jews thrown out of Arab countries to the number of Palestinians who fled, you will realize that what the Jews lost in Arab countries was far greater than anything the Palestinian Arabs lost.
When we talk about ‘right of return’ let’s deal with all the land, houses, businesses and lives lost when the Arabs expelled the Jews from their countries.
[quote=“jdsmith”]If more time was spent listening to those who want peace, and realize that peace must include recognizing a Palestinian state, there'd be a much greater chance of a lasting settlement.
If wishes were horses, I’d have a ranch.
There’s a huge difference is wanting peace and actively working for it. No one in this equation is working for peace.[/quote]
Not so, and not even close.
I’ve interviewed non-Israelis who were involved in Oslo and other peace efforts. It was NOT Israel that sabotaged the negotiations, but the Palestinians.
To say that Israel doesn’t try hard for peace is a ridiculous lie.
I’ve seen it for myself.
[quote=“jdsmith”]If more time was spent listening to those who want peace, and realize that peace must include recognizing a Palestinian state, there'd be a much greater chance of a lasting settlement.
If wishes were horses, I’d have a ranch.
There’s a huge difference is wanting peace and actively working for it. No one in this equation is working for peace.[/quote]
That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Extremists on both sides have hijacked the process.
[quote=“jdsmith”]If more time was spent listening to those who want peace, and realize that peace must include recognizing a Palestinian state, there'd be a much greater chance of a lasting settlement.
If wishes were horses, I’d have a ranch.
There’s a huge difference is wanting peace and actively working for it. No one in this equation is working for peace.[/quote]
And what about the recognition of the state of Israel? You want a state that does not exist to be recognised, yet Hamas does not recognise the state of Israel, which does exist. I noticed your post failed to mention this. And don’t come back agreeing to this now.
As GIT said, Hamas was democratically elected. Therefore represent the will of their constituents. As the Hamas charter, to this day, does not recognise Israel, this must be the will of the people in Gaza.
Hamas was elected because they were the only player able to provide some basic social services and everyday needs such as food, water and medicine. People who have nothing and are forced to live under a virtual apartheid system will vote for whoever can supply their most basic needs. It doesn’t follow that all constituents agree with their charter, they have much more basic issues in mind.
[quote=“cfimages”]
That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Extremists on both sides have hijacked the process.[/quote]
No, they haven’t. The extremists on only ONE side have hijacked the process.
Israel has been throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery for peace since the 1980s.
What? That HAMAS should recognize Israel? Is HAMAS a country??
:bravo:
Yes, it’s the apolitical answer that is the best!
Google “Hamas Funding.”
Israel has been throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery for peace since the 1980s.
[/quote]
Do you have ANY sources backing that statement?
Or, are you just making it up as you go along?
Let’s see something more than banal regurgitation of propaganda.
Of course Hamas should recognise Israel. Please explain how a settlement can be negotiated if one party does not recognise the other?
Actually not only does Hamas not recognise Israel but it is sworn to its destruction. Read the charter.
Israel has been throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery for peace since the 1980s.
[/quote]
Do you have ANY sources backing that statement?
[/quote]
Read a book once in a while. It does a brain good! 
Israel has been throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery for peace since the 1980s.
[/quote]
Do you have ANY sources backing that statement?
[/quote]
Read a book once in a while. It does a brain good! [/quote]
It certainly does.
Of course, you should remember, “garbage in, garbage out.”
But, feel free to illuminate us with quotes from the book, if that’s your source.
[quote=“Got To Be Kidding”][quote=“jdsmith”]If more time was spent listening to those who want peace, and realize that peace must include recognizing a Palestinian state, there'd be a much greater chance of a lasting settlement.
If wishes were horses, I’d have a ranch.
There’s a huge difference is wanting peace and actively working for it. No one in this equation is working for peace.[/quote]
Not so, and not even close.
I’ve interviewed non-Israelis who were involved in Oslo and other peace efforts. It was NOT Israel that sabotaged the negotiations, but the Palestinians.
To say that Israel doesn’t try hard for peace is a ridiculous lie.
I’ve seen it for myself.[/quote]
Really? Someone forgot to tell Netanyahu that.
[quote]He recalled how he conditioned his signing of the 1997 Hebron agreement on American consent that there be no withdrawals from “specified military locations,” and insisted he choose those same locations, such as the whole of the Jordan Valley, for example. “Why is that important? Because from that moment on I stopped the Oslo Accords,” he boasts.[/quote].
Editorial in today’s NYT (hardly a rabidly left-wing, pro-Palestinian rag):
[quote]Last week, the United States made a listless effort to get Palestinians to forgo the vote in favor of new peace talks. The pitch was unpersuasive. The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, said the Americans made no concrete proposal. “To be frank with you, they came too late,” he said. His frustration is understandable. Since President Obama took office, the only direct negotiations between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel and Mr. Abbas lasted a mere two weeks in September 2010.
Both sides share the blame with Mr. Obama and Arab leaders (we put the greater onus on Mr. Netanyahu, who has used any excuse to thwart peace efforts). But the best path to statehood remains negotiations.
The United States and its Quartet partners (the European Union, the United Nations and Russia) should put a map and a deal on the table, with a timeline for concluding negotiations and a formal U.N. statehood vote. The core element: a Palestinian state based on pre-1967 borders with mutually agreed land swaps and guarantees for Israel’s security. The Security Council and the Arab League need to throw their full weight behind any plan.[/quote]
No, I don’t expect this to convince anyone in the ‘to hell with those people’ camp. But still hope for recognition that there’s at least two sides to the story.
[quote=“Jaboney”]
No, I don’t expect this to convince anyone in the ‘to hell with those people’ camp. But still hope for recognition that there’s at least two sides to the story.[/quote]
Do you even believe in the concept of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’?
Would you have been one of those people that tried to see both sides of The Holocaust?
Is the right of self-defense of any worth to you?
Do the roots of a problem have any meaning to you?
I have a great deal of care for the Palestinian people, but I don’t let that care blind me to fact that their leadership has done much to sabotage their aspirations. You are not helping the cause of the Palestinian people by regurgitating propaganda.
[quote=“Jaboney”]
No, I don’t expect this to convince anyone in the ‘to hell with those people’ camp. But still hope for recognition that there’s at least two sides to the story.[/quote]
You’d have better luck bashing your head bloody against a concrete wall. No amount of reason will help you.
OK, since you appear to, what’s “right” about this?
[quote=“navillus”][quote=“Jaboney”]
No, I don’t expect this to convince anyone in the ‘to hell with those people’ camp. But still hope for recognition that there’s at least two sides to the story.[/quote]
You’d have better luck bashing your head bloody against a concrete wall. No amount of reason will help you.
OK, since you appear to, what’s “right” about this?[/quote]
And, you believe that these maps aren’t the result of anything else than the Palestinian leadership screwing their own people?
The Arabs commit atrocity after atrocity against Jewish residents of Palestine forcing them to attempt to create a Jewish state.
Then, Israel accepts the UN Partition plan, and the Arabs attack, yet again!
Then, in 1967 Jordan launches an attack against Israel - who begged them not to do so? And, lost?
Then, when Ehud Barak offers the Palestinians everything they ask for, and Arafat says no?
And, you are wondering how those maps came to be?
As Abba Eban once said, “The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”
[quote=“navillus”][quote=“Jaboney”]
No, I don’t expect this to convince anyone in the ‘to hell with those people’ camp. But still hope for recognition that there’s at least two sides to the story.[/quote]
You’d have better luck bashing your head bloody against a concrete wall. No amount of reason will help you. [/quote]
You’re right. Which is why I’ve largely given up responding to some. Post facts and reason, and let the screeds drone on.
[quote=“Jaboney”]
You’re right. Which is why I’ve largely given up responding to some. Post facts and reason, and let the screeds drone on.[/quote]
And what facts and reason are we talking about here?
Those who continue to bash the only democracy in the region very rarely have either a fact, or a reason to back up their arguments.
Please stop with the empty posturing.
Is this list accurate?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pa … rael,_2011
It seems Israel has pretty good reason to maintain a blockade.
As I’ve said before the Palestinians have plenty of reason to be upset with the situation; for a start, denials that they even have a reason to be upset, which could be funny if the situation weren’t so sad and damaging, and if the denials weren’t so blatantly obtuse. However things are what they are now in 2011 and the Israelis full well have the right to defend themselves from such attacks. It’s equally almost funny that an Israeli counterattack of some kind will raise a storm of protest, but simply trying to keep weapons out while letting humanitarian aid in is no good either.