Did you just pay the holocaust card? :bravo:
I don’t think he is playing the holocaust card.
He is illustrating a point.
A people who had a third of their population wiped out may have trust issues dealing with another group whos desire is to wipe out the rest of them. Make no mistake. This is the aim of Hamas.
[quote=“navillus”][quote=“Jaboney”]
No, I don’t expect this to convince anyone in the ‘to hell with those people’ camp. But still hope for recognition that there’s at least two sides to the story.[/quote]
You’d have better luck bashing your head bloody against a concrete wall. No amount of reason will help you.
OK, since you appear to, what’s “right” about this?[/quote]
Well, lets look at the facts of the maps as the poster conveniently forgot to mention them. I also noted the Sinai is conveniently missing. This shows the amount of land given up by the Israelis for a peace treaty with Egypt. The Sinai was also captured by the Israelis in a war started by Egypt.
The first map shows how much land was stolen from the Israelites. The title is a little inaccurate. It should read, Israelite land stolen by the Arabs.
The second map shows the UN partition plan.
The third map shows the outcome of the war of independence which was started by the Arabs. Boo hoo. Damn those Israelis for defending themselves. Thats unsporting.
I dont see the map 1967 to 1973? Must be an oversight as well. This shows another result of Arab aggression towards the Israelis. Those dirty Israelis defended themselves again. The bastards.
The fourth map shows the result of continuing Arab hostility towards Israel. Don’t kid yourself that it means anything else. If they wont recognize Israel, or at least stop threatening to wipe them out, they Palestinians would already have a country.
I also believe Jordan only ceded its claims to the West Bank to the PLO in 1988. You might as well have shown a map of Jordanian vs Palestinian land as well.
Just in case anyone was in any doubt though (and indeed, just how well as the basic needs of Palestinians being met under Hamas rule?), Hamas made sure to throw the opposition off roof tops so no one could vote for them next time. Lovely bunch of guys.
[quote=“bigduke6”]I don’t think he is playing the holocaust card.
He is illustrating a point.
A people who had a third of their population wiped out may have trust issues[/quote]A point well made by Judith Shklar: due to the ‘liberalism of fear’, victims frequently become victimizers.
Well, I for one would not trust someone who said they wanted to kill me.
Maybe its just me? You?
[quote=“Jaboney”][quote=“bigduke6”]I don’t think he is playing the holocaust card.
He is illustrating a point.
A people who had a third of their population wiped out may have trust issues[/quote]A point well made by Judith Shklar: due to the ‘liberalism of fear’, victims frequently become victimizers.[/quote]
Where does this myth come from that Israel is the ‘victimizer’?
You’ve never been to Israel. All that you know is the propaganda fed to you by Palestinian groups. Yet, you consistently and completely ignore those of us who have been there and have dealt with both sides of the issue directly.
And no, I was not playing the ‘holocaust card’. This is not a game, no matter how much y’all like to think of it that way. I would have easily referred to the Pol Pot and Cambodia. Stalin and the Ukraine. Turkey and the Armenians.
The term that we are looking for is called ‘reductio ad absurdum’. Look it up.
The point that I am trying to make is that you can claim that there are two sides to every issue, but it is ridiculous in the face of a population that is exercising the right of self-defense - in a fight for survival. Their sin in being successful at self-defense should have no bearing on this matter.
If you truly care about the Palestinians, and I do, you would do well to understand the right and wrong of this situation. Of course, that takes work and effort. If you wish to be a credible commentator on this issue, do the work to attain credibility.
The Palestinians have been conned and lied to by their leadership. You do not help them by parroting propaganda.
I can tell you that in my case, a lot of my knowledge and opinion is informed by people I know who lived and work (or have lived and worked) in the area. Israeli’s, Palestinians, aid workers, medics, journalists - all people who I personally know. And they paint a very different picture to you.
[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]
You’ve never been to Israel. All that you know is the propaganda fed to you by Palestinian groups. Yet, you consistently and completely ignore those of us who have been there and have dealt with both sides of the issue directly.
[/quote]
I can tell you that in my case, a lot of my knowledge and opinion is informed by people I know who lived and work (or have lived and worked) in the area. Israeli’s, Palestinians, aid workers, medics, journalists - all people who I personally know. And they paint a very different picture to you.[/quote]
Well, since I don’t know the individuals that you refer to, I can hardly comment on their veracity.
It is easy to ‘cherry pick’ your sources to conform to preconceived notions. For instance, the ‘Shalom Achshav’ (Peace Now) fringe group offers up a tremendous number of sound bites to those who are looking for an anti-Israel/antisemitic point of view. But, we’re not talking about ‘cherry picking’.
We are talking about Israel’s right to exist and her right to self-defense.
[quote=“Jaboney”][quote=“bigduke6”]I don’t think he is playing the holocaust card.
He is illustrating a point.
A people who had a third of their population wiped out may have trust issues[/quote]A point well made by Judith Shklar: due to the ‘liberalism of fear’, victims frequently become victimizers.[/quote]
If you are going to quote me, please quote me in full.
My post was;
I don’t think he is playing the holocaust card.
He is illustrating a point.
A people who had a third of their population wiped out may have trust issues dealing with another group whos desire is to wipe out the rest of them. Make no mistake. This is the aim of Hamas.
But no one here is anti-Israel / antisemitic. No one is looking for an anti-Israel / antisemitic point of view. And the vast majority of Palestinian supporters in the media, aid groups etc aren’t anti-Israel / antisemitic either. It’s got nothing to do with cherry picking sources.
You cannot seriously justify it on a basis of self-defense when you occupy the land and continue building more settlements and trying to expand the borders. 
To the Palestinians, what they’re doing is self-defense. Does that make rocket attacks and suicide bombings right? Of course not. So why is is justifiable when done by one but not when done by the other?
Just in case anyone was in any doubt though (and indeed, just how well as the basic needs of Palestinians being met under Hamas rule?), Hamas made sure to throw the opposition off roof tops so no one could vote for them next time. Lovely bunch of guys.[/quote]
Shows how much you know.
Hamas never threw Fatah members of rooftops.
It was a Zionist plot to discredit Hamas. The Zionist oppressor used the Mossad to feed Fatah supporters LSD, that they got from the Zionist Occupation Government in the USA. The Zionist Occupation Government got the LSD from their MK ULTRA program. The Fatah members then thought they could fly.
A friend of my 16th cousins ex room mates sisters brothers uncles aunt told me, so I have firsthand experience.
I know my history because I have read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Do you really believe that the posters on forumosa are antisemitic? That’s a mighty big claim to make.
Criticism of Israel’s policies does not equal antisemitism.
What about some of the recent criticism outside these boards? I guess the likes of Obama, Robert Gates, the New York Times, Tom Friedman, Amnesty Intl are all antisemitic.
In amongst all the hoohah about 9-11 in the past few days, one thing stuck out for me.
that was a report that since 2001 some 30,000+ people have been arrested worldwide under anti-terror laws.
But what was really interesting was that approx 12,000 of these arrests occurred in Turkey. No surprise that they were mostly Kurdish independence fighters/terrorists.
Of course the biggest joke about the US response to 9-11 and the war on terror was the search for worldwide support - any country with some minority they wanted to suppress immediately sent out the condolences and signed up (Russi, China, the Stans, all fine examples)… Turkey was no exception.
But what I find funny is that this aspect of Turkey’s behavior should suddenly make it into the news after 10 years of silence on the matter… could this be coincidence??
I did not mean the posters. My bad.
I would like a list of these Palestinian media and aid groups you are talking about.
[quote=“bigduke6”]I did not mean the posters. My bad.
I would like a list of these Palestinian media and aid groups you are talking about.[/quote]
In my post above I mention a few recent critics.
[quote=“steev”]In amongst all the hoohah about 9-11 in the past few days, one thing stuck out for me.
that was a report that since 2001 some 30,000+ people have been arrested worldwide under anti-terror laws.
But what was really interesting was that approx 12,000 of these arrests occurred in Turkey. No surprise that they were mostly Kurdish independence fighters/terrorists.
Of course the biggest joke about the US response to 9-11 and the war on terror was the search for worldwide support - any country with some minority they wanted to suppress immediately sent out the condolences and signed up (Russi, China, the Stans, all fine examples)… Turkey was no exception.
But what I find funny is that this aspect of Turkey’s behavior should suddenly make it into the news after 10 years of silence on the matter… could this be coincidence??[/quote]
Well, I believe your point is not correct about condolences. I would bet most countries in the world sent condolences to the USA after 9/11. Is this an opinion or does such a list exist?
According to my info the “War on Terror” is led primarily by the US and UK (not sure the minority they want eliminated. I would assume it must be the Pikeys), as well as most members of NATO.
The list of non NATO partners are:
Afghanistan
Australia
El Salvador
Ethiopia
Iraq
Israel
Kenya
Republic of Korea
Lebanon
New Zealand
Pakistan
Philippines
South Africa
Possibly a list of minorities that the Australians want to wipe out would be a start to meaningful discussion?
[quote=“cfimages”]Do you really believe that the posters on forumosa are antisemitic? That’s a mighty big claim to make.
Criticism of Israel’s policies does not equal antisemitism.
What about some of the recent criticism outside these boards? I guess the likes of Obama, Robert Gates, the New York Times, Tom Friedman, Amnesty Intl are all antisemitic.[/quote]
Ok, you have mentioned a few individuals, a liberal newspaper, and Amnesty International. BTW you mentioned anti semitism not me.
I can probably name some who support the policies of Israel.
Are you sure none of these individuals/agencies have not been in anyway critical of Palestinian actions?
Oh, you left out the UN.
And what about the Palestinian media and aid groups you mentiones?
[quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“cfimages”]Do you really believe that the posters on forumosa are antisemitic? That’s a mighty big claim to make.
Criticism of Israel’s policies does not equal antisemitism.
What about some of the recent criticism outside these boards? I guess the likes of Obama, Robert Gates, the New York Times, Tom Friedman, Amnesty Intl are all antisemitic.[/quote]
Ok, you have mentioned a few individuals, a liberal newspaper, and Amnesty International. BTW you mentioned anti semitism not me.
I can probably name some who support the policies of Israel.
Are you sure none of these individuals/agencies have not been in anyway critical of Palestinian actions?
Oh, you left out the UN.
And what about the Palestinian media and aid groups you mentiones?[/quote]
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Antisemitism was brought up by GTBK not me. I was just replying.
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No mention was made of Palestinian media.
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No claim was made that they weren’t critical of the Palestinians.
Did you even read what was written?