TW fishing boat attacked close to the Philippines

[quote=“Okami”]Hey, what if they were doing something illegal like drug/gun smuggling? You don’t start shooting up boats for no reason. :ponder:

Damn this means no more Mountain Dew, Gatorade or graham crackers for a few months. :bluemad:[/quote]

I think if the Philippines had a legit reason, such as tracking down drug trade, they would have said so by now. But instead they said the boat was fishing illegally in Philipinne waters and tried to ram them, which is ridiculous, since the boat is much smaller than the coast guard ship. If they come up with the drug excuse later, it would be too late to be credible.

I just wish the government had the gut to send a Sheng Feng III up their ass…

Possibly, but she’s probably just one of the other 3,000,000 other girls who are exactly like your ex-gf, stamped out of the same educational machine.

Easy mistake to make, with Taiwanese drivers. Or American ones, for that matter.

This is what makes me sick about the “let’s kick the foreigners out!” argument. Why doesn’t the gov’t simply inform the Philippines that if they won’t negotiate a treaty, and can’t play nice, then the shared EEZ on this side of the overlap will henceforth be patrolled by the Taiwanese Navy, who will enforce a unilateral ban on all fishing in the area, says I? They’d have the moral high ground and international scientific consensus on their side. Do you really think the Phils would start a hot war over tuna fishing, if push came to shove? Oh no, said S.O., we’re not going to be violent like those barbarians; that’s not the Chinese Way. We prefer to be passive-aggressive and pick on a weak bystander as the target of our ire. OK, she didn’t actually say that last bit. But I heard it anyway.

Nobody seems to understand that this isn’t an “incident”. It’s simply the inevitable result when people over-consume resources and fail to regulate access in a sustainable way. CITES gave the key players the chance to put a stop to this nonsense. Most countries - including Taiwan, in one of the few international venues they actually get invited to - said “no”. So fuck’em.

[quote=“finley”]
Easy mistake to make, with Taiwanese drivers. Or American ones, for that matter.[/quote]

ouch, you got me there with both! you wound me sir, you wound me…

the shit moves closer to the fan:

gmanetwork.com/news/story/30 … oy-workers

Whatever. China continues to add cruise and ballistic missiles by the hundreds, has hundreds of spies here, buys off military personnel, floods the markets with dodgy food stuffs. And Ma does what?

This is all about show as as finley wrote, it’s the hard working SE Asian laborers, already toiling under the indifference of the government here, that will pay the price. Disgusting all around.

Well if their government won’t get their acts together and resort to stupid violence like this, then what is this government to do? Most Americans will say this about foreigners in America, that the country has no obligation to let foreigners come in and work. Would you rather Taiwan send a Sheng Feng III toward the cost guard headquarter of Philippines?

Do you really think Taiwan is the only country that mistreats their foreign worker? See how the US treats their Mexican migrant workers…

You’ve been living in Taiwan too long, TL. You’ve absorbed their reasoning skills by osmosis. Or maybe your own have diffused out.

Sometimes it’s a good thing when the government doesn’t listen to public opinion. The public are usually talking out of their collective ass.

Not studied in maritime law but seem to recall the USA has a 200 mile economic zone around its shores and does not allow fishing boats from other countries into that zone without prior approval? And certainly the US Coast Guard will board an intruder and if needed will shoot at and even sink an intruding vessel that attempts to defy boarding and attempts escape.

My understanding is that many countries have this 200 mile economic exclusion zone.

And if so, then the PHillippines is within its rights to patrol its zone and within its rights to board an intruding vessel and even shoot at said vessels who attempt to escape.

One can say that the Coast Guard of the PHillippines couldve just seen these fishermen off and let them go without chasing them for hours and then shooting at them. And then stop protecting its territory when the sight of a much larger gunboat came into view.

Either you are protecting your territorial waters or you are not.

The coast guard vessel knew they could harash an unarmed fishing vessel but could not harash a military vessel in international waters. Waters outside of the 12 nautical miles of a country’s coast is considered international waters. Irrespective of an exclusion zone.

So a conflict could ensue , and hence the phil boat ran.

There is a need for international law to dictate (to member nations) what conduct is considered proper.

Say 12 nautical miles offshore and within, is national waters and all foreign vessels subject to boarding and / or attack.

OUtside of the 12 knots, but within the economic zone agreements should be made between countries whos waters border and other nation’s boats allowed with prior permission.

Actualy personally i think the national border waters should extend to 100 miles . And outside of that it is international waters and there should be no economic or other considerations afforded that nation.

And nations whos waters border are automatically given rights to within half of said waters.

Say for example. TWo nations are only 30 miles apart, then each has 15 miles within that shared zone.

Id like to see no fishing beyond 100 miles of coast worldwide. To allow fish a chance to repopulate.

And coastal fish be given special consideration as that nation deems fit. OUtside of internationally protected species who pass through those waters, such as whale sharks or whales, dofins , etc.

Id like to see a massive curtailment of ocean fishing . Fish farming in the ocean allowed to a certain extent but no more ocean fishing worldwide.

A moratorium of 20 years to allow fish to repopulate worldwide.

And no fishing of whales and other mammals or large sharks, especially those endangered.

[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]
Do you really think Taiwan is the only country that mistreats their foreign worker? See how the US treats their Mexican migrant workers…[/quote]

I hate this fucking argument, it is so full of shit. If the US had the same legal structure for Mexicans that Taiwan does for Filipinos there would be massive outrage. Sure, some shit happens when people work illegally, but that is a whole different ball of wax.

Also, the US will likely soon amnesty up to 11M undocumented workers (the majority of which come from Latin America). Can you see Taiwan ever giving citizenship to any of their domestics or factory slogs?

This BS parallelism we all like to draw is flawed and born out of Western guilt. It happens in every argument and it is my least favorite aspect of Liberalism and I wish people would cut it out.

/mini rant

I expect countries that have good bilatateral relations to work things out and not resort to bravado and “payback.”

Anyway, let’s see how far this goes when business starts telling Ma they need the Filipino workers or the economy will collapse. Don’t forget they are shouting to be allowed to import even more foreign workers.

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003562072

US spokesperson does not say the shooting was improper use of force.

Because if this happened in US 200 mile economic zone the US Coast Guard will board the vessel and would possibly shoot too.

economic zones
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

[quote=“Mucha Man”]

Anyway, let’s see how far this goes when business starts telling Ma they need the Filipino workers or the economy will collapse. Don’t forget they are shouting to be allowed to import even more foreign workers.[/quote]

Sorry to be contrary here, but I agree with Ma in this case, if this was an actual case of uncalled for aggression by the Philippines. The only leverage he is with the Philippines is this. But first they should do an investigation and see what comes out of it first. The fact that a news article said that the military has the video but won’t share it says something, doesn’t it.

Second, let the companies cry for more workers. Just stand firm and say no, and perhaps the companies will be forced to hire locals at a living wage, instead of trying to get something for nothing (labour costs). Companies in Canada are doing this lately as well, hiring OFW so they can pay them nothing and drive down the locals wages. Fortunately the people in Canada made such a fuss the government changed the rules making it hard to hire overseas workers.

[quote=“dan2006”][quote=“Muzha Man”]

Anyway, let’s see how far this goes when business starts telling Ma they need the Filipino workers or the economy will collapse. Don’t forget they are shouting to be allowed to import even more foreign workers.[/quote]

Sorry to be contrary here, but I agree with Ma in this case, if this was an actual case of uncalled for aggression by the Philippines. The only leverage he is with the Philippines is this. But first they should do an investigation and see what comes out of it first. The fact that a news article said that the military has the video but won’t share it says something, doesn’t it.

Second, let the companies cry for more workers. Just stand firm and say no, and perhaps the companies will be forced to hire locals at a living wage, instead of trying to get something for nothing (labour costs). Companies in Canada are doing this lately as well, hiring OFW so they can pay them nothing and drive down the locals wages. Fortunately the people in Canada made such a fuss the government changed the rules making it hard to hire overseas workers.[/quote]

I don’t know the other side of the story but when Philippines lied and claimed that they only fired one or two shots to warn them off, when evidence shows that the boat was riddled with bullets shows that they’re hiding something. Either they have a really powerful shotgun that makes a ton of bullet holes in one shot, or somebody’s lying. Most civilized countries wouldn’t just go turning a boat into beehives without a really good reason, like acts of aggression. Also they were in overlapped waters and not really violating the Philippine’s water. Even then all they had to do is detain them and not start shooting without warning (as the fishermen said), but who knows what really happened?

[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”][quote=“dan2006”][quote=“Muzha Man”]

Anyway, let’s see how far this goes when business starts telling Ma they need the Filipino workers or the economy will collapse. Don’t forget they are shouting to be allowed to import even more foreign workers.[/quote]

Sorry to be contrary here, but I agree with Ma in this case, if this was an actual case of uncalled for aggression by the Philippines. The only leverage he is with the Philippines is this. But first they should do an investigation and see what comes out of it first. The fact that a news article said that the military has the video but won’t share it says something, doesn’t it.

Second, let the companies cry for more workers. Just stand firm and say no, and perhaps the companies will be forced to hire locals at a living wage, instead of trying to get something for nothing (labour costs). Companies in Canada are doing this lately as well, hiring OFW so they can pay them nothing and drive down the locals wages. Fortunately the people in Canada made such a fuss the government changed the rules making it hard to hire overseas workers.[/quote]

I don’t know the other side of the story but when Philippines lied and claimed that they only fired one or two shots to warn them off, when evidence shows that the boat was riddled with bullets shows that they’re hiding something. Either they have a really powerful shotgun that makes a ton of bullet holes in one shot, or somebody’s lying. Most civilized countries wouldn’t just go turning a boat into beehives without a really good reason, like acts of aggression. Also they were in overlapped waters and not really violating the Philippine’s water. Even then all they had to do is detain them and not start shooting without warning (as the fishermen said), but who knows what really happened?[/quote]

Yes, let the Philippine military release the video and people can judge for themselves what happened. If the fishing vessel had unarmed men, it shouldn’t be that hard to go aboard and detain everyone without having to swiss cheese the boat.

Talk about blowing things out of proportion, this looks like an isolated incident, pai seis and red envelopes all round, a bit of huffing and puffing, and back to business as usual. Taiwan fishing boats by raping the ocean, and Filipino navy running away from bigger ships.

That won’t happen. You know it won’t.

Educate yourself.

Guess what Taiwan asks from the other party is reasonable. It would be sad to see thousands of Pinoy workers here being punished for something that most condemn themselves - ?

I don’t think the pinoy workers already here will get punished (unless their work permit is up), Ma is talking about postponing new approvals.

As for if shooting people in economic waters is appropriete, yes, if the violators is armed. Like I said before, if the Taiwanese boat was doing anything illegal like that, making the attack seem more legit, the Filipinos would have said so by now. Since they just said the Taiwanese ship was illegally fishing in their waters (which is technically not true), it seems shooting the boat to swiss cheese is unwarranted.