U.S. halts China space ventures

[quote]
U.S. halts China space ventures

By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published February 2, 2007

The Bush administration has suspended plans to develop space ventures with China, including joint exploration of the moon, in reaction to Beijing’s Jan. 11 test of an anti-satellite weapon that left orbiting debris threatening U.S. and foreign satellites.
National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman Jason Sharp said the weapon test undermined an agreement reached between President Bush and Chinese President Hu Jintao during an April summit.
“We believe China’s development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the constructive relationship that our presidents have outlined, including on civil space cooperation,” Mr. Sharp said.
He said there were “some initial discussions looking at where there were mutual interests where we could cooperate with the Chinese,” but there are no plans for future discussions. The two presidents had hoped to work on joint moon exploration and space-debris avoidance.
Bush administration officials said the suspension is meant to signal U.S. displeasure with the anti-satellite weapon (ASAT) test, as well as Beijing’s failure to provide an explanation for its space arms program.
“Clearly it makes it more difficult to go down the path of cooperation when they’re testing ASAT weapons,” one official said.
China fired a missile on Jan. 11 that released a nonexplosive warhead that destroyed a Chinese weather satellite 530 miles above the Earth by ramming it at high speed. Thousands of pieces of the destroyed satellite are in orbit and could damage or destroy some of the hundreds of U.S. and foreign satellites, U.S. officials said.
In Beijing yesterday, amid growing criticism over the ASAT test, a Chinese spokesman repeated Beijing’s past call for an agreement banning space weapons, a proposal that has been rejected by the Bush administration.
“Since other countries care about this question and are opposed to weaponization of space and an arms race in space, then let us join hands to realize this goal,” said Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu when asked about U.S. and Japanese criticism of the test.
Both China and Russia in 2002 proposed adopting a treaty to ban deployment of space weapons during a session of the U.N. Conference on Disarmament in Geneva. Until last year, U.S. space cooperation with China was curbed over China’s human rights abuses, including the 1989 Tiananmen massacre, and national security worries in the Pentagon that space technology transfers would boost China’s military.
Robert Joseph, undersecretary of state for arms control and the administration’s point man for space security policy, said yesterday that the space weapons test was a shock. It shows space is a “contested environment” and that “countries are developing capabilities to put at risk our assets for which we are dependent,” he said.
“This is a wake-up call,” Mr. Joseph said, noting that the United States needs “to ensure that we take the steps necessary to protect the space assets and the right to unfettered access to space.”
Also, the space arms test should be viewed in the context of China’s large-scale buildup of both strategic and conventional forces, not just their space weapons, he said.
Mr. Joseph said he is surprised by the muted international response to the test. “I think there has been very little outrage expressed,” he said. “Just imagine the international reaction if the U.S. had conducted such a test.”
On Capitol Hill, Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher, California Democrat and chairman of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, said China’s action poses a “major problem and something the world community needs to address.”
“We’re now stuck with hundreds of pieces of this Chinese satellite for a hundred years, and it’s having an impact on the entire global commons,” she said, noting that there needs to be “common norms and acceptable rules of behavior in space.”
Mrs. Tauscher called for engaging the Chinese and others in talks on space weapons, saying that while Beijing’s ASAT test was “irresponsible and unacceptable … sticking our heads in the sand isn’t going to make it better; it will only make it worse.”
U.S. intelligence officials said China has sought to obtain U.S. military space technology through espionage and other covert means but has been curbed by U.S. security measures.
“They’ve had trouble getting it through the back door so they decided to come in through the front,” a defense official said.
Among the technologies sought by the Chinese are dual-use civilian and military goods used in maneuvering spacecraft, including propulsion and battery know-how, which have applications for anti-satellite guidance systems, the defense official said.
Joint U.S.-China space cooperation was first raised last spring by China’s deputy space agency administrator, Luo Ge, shortly before the summit. He said China wanted to take part in the International Space Station, including making modifications on the orbiting station that would allow Chinese spacecraft to dock.
China launched its first manned spacecraft last year and has embarked on a major space program, that, unlike the NASA’s program, is run entirely by the Chinese military. [/quote]

washingtontimes.com/function … 4742-3849r

Terrorists don’t have satellite weapons or such, so that can’t be the reason why China needs a anti-satellite weapon.

A good point in the article is that China’s space program, unlike those of the US and Europe, is run by the military and thus has a military bent. US-China space cooperation makes little sense in that regard, and I’m glad the US has cut it off (at least for now). Also noteworthy is the point made by the US official that if this had been the US who conducted such a test, the world would be in an uproar.

[quote]Thousands of pieces of the destroyed satellite are in orbit and could damage or destroy some of the hundreds of U.S. and foreign satellites, U.S. officials said.
[/quote]
I’m sure thousands of bits of satellite are less of a risk to other satellites as millions of bits of rock which pass through the satellites’ orbit and into the earths atmosphere every week.
I think “officials” are scraping the barrel here to find extra reasoning.

The US has consistently carried out research on lasers that could knock out enemy satellites and the Bush administration has repeatedly ruled out the idea of a global treaty banning putting weapons in space.

There is no agreed upon set of international rules to oversee the development or ban the deployment of non-WMD space weapons, only The Outer Space Treaty (1967) Bans nuclear weapon test explosions, or any other nuclear explosion in the atmosphere or outer space, along with The Partial Test Ban Treaty (1963) and a smattering of UN resolutions over the past two decades that have called for the use of space for peaceful purposes only. Consequently, only weapons of mass destruction are banned from space, leaving the possibility for deployment of anti-satellite weapons, space-based lasers or any of the other space weapons being researched and developed.”

It has already been seen that a number of U.S. military planning documents issued in recent years reveal the intention to control space by military means. The United States is pursuing a number of research programs to enable the development of space weapons, which could be used not only to attack ballistic missiles in flight but also to attack satellites and targets anywhere on Earth. Chinese officials have expressed a growing concern that U.S. plans would stimulate a costly and destabilizing arms race in space and on Earth, with disastrous effects on international security and the peaceful use of outer space.

So if the US can develop space weapons, why not China?

Just the flip side of the coin, that’s all.

[quote=“Dangermouse”][quote]Thousands of pieces of the destroyed satellite are in orbit and could damage or destroy some of the hundreds of U.S. and foreign satellites, U.S. officials said.
[/quote]
I’m sure thousands of bits of satellite are less of a risk to other satellites as millions of bits of rock which pass through the satellites’ orbit and into the earths atmosphere every week.
I think “officials” are scraping the barrel here to find extra reasoning.

Just the flip side of the coin, that’s all.[/quote]

Not so. Unfortunately, in order for a satellite to be useful, the number of orbits are highly limited. They are limited in their height vs speed (otherwise they’ll fly off a like a slingshot, or fall back down to earth).

For example, a geosynchronous orbit (one that looks to be stationary from the ground).

This means that any debris coming from one of these satellites is likely to remain in the same path for a long time. Most of the crap coming in from space is perpendicular to the orbit, rather than travelling in its path.

See this

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/science/space/06orbi.html?em&ex=1170910800&en=27539e93f67b9ce7&ei=5087%0A

If you look at the altitude the test took place, you can see that it would have a bigger impact than most other tests.

I believe that there is a treaty regulating the testing of anti-satelite weapons. The US & Russia no longer build or test ASAT weapons, but they do have many other devices that could be used as such. In fact, it does not take very much to kill a satelite. All orbits are well known and trackable and all it would take is a spray of PVC pellets to kill everything.

All it does is show that China has ambitions beyond a ‘peaceful rise’ - but we knew that already didn’t we?

[quote=“Elegua”]
All it does is show that China has ambitions beyond a ‘peaceful rise’ - but we knew that already didn’t we?[/quote]

surely not? (gasp, mock horror)

kind of rich for the chinese to blow up a satellite one day (proving their quest for the weaponisation of space) and then the next month, to call for a ban on space weaponisation.

USSR and USA did have a few goes at that kind of thing 20 years ago, under Ronnie Raygun, but have since been a lot more circumspect. star wars II is probably still being developed, tho. satellite to satellite killers are probably in orbit as we speak. not too hard to stuff up a comms or spy satellite by shooting wads of tin foil at it, or nudging it to a lower orbit and letting gravity do the rest. can’t really trust these americans further than you can throw them.

[quote=“urodacus”]kind of rich for the chinese to blow up a satellite one day (proving their quest for the weaponisation of space) and then the next month, to call for a ban on space weaponisation. [/quote]Clever. Not rich; clever.

pop
bang

“Hiya, nieghbour. I see you’ve got a nice big canon over there. Loud suckers, aren’t they? What’s that? Oh yeah, that noise was my canon. Nowhere nearly as impressive as yours, but loud enough. Makes it hard to sleep easy when the neighbours popping off a canon, unexpectedly, don’t it? Tell you what… I’ll stow my jerry-rigged pop-gun if you do the same with that sweet machine of yours.”

[quote=“Dangermouse”][quote]Thousands of pieces of the destroyed satellite are in orbit and could damage or destroy some of the hundreds of U.S. and foreign satellites, U.S. officials said.
[/quote]
I’m sure thousands of bits of satellite are less of a risk to other satellites as millions of bits of rock which pass through the satellites’ orbit and into the earths atmosphere every week.
I think “officials” are scraping the barrel here to find extra reasoning.

The US has consistently carried out research on lasers that could knock out enemy satellites and the Bush administration has repeatedly ruled out the idea of a global treaty banning putting weapons in space.

There is no agreed upon set of international rules to oversee the development or ban the deployment of non-WMD space weapons, only The Outer Space Treaty (1967) Bans nuclear weapon test explosions, or any other nuclear explosion in the atmosphere or outer space, along with The Partial Test Ban Treaty (1963) and a smattering of UN resolutions over the past two decades that have called for the use of space for peaceful purposes only. Consequently, only weapons of mass destruction are banned from space, leaving the possibility for deployment of anti-satellite weapons, space-based lasers or any of the other space weapons being researched and developed.”

It has already been seen that a number of U.S. military planning documents issued in recent years reveal the intention to control space by military means. The United States is pursuing a number of research programs to enable the development of space weapons, which could be used not only to attack ballistic missiles in flight but also to attack satellites and targets anywhere on Earth. Chinese officials have expressed a growing concern that U.S. plans would stimulate a costly and destabilizing arms race in space and on Earth, with disastrous effects on international security and the peaceful use of outer space.

So if the US can develop space weapons, why not China?

Just the flip side of the coin, that’s all.[/quote]

Yeah I suppose NASA’ civilian status doesn’t mean much in light of the Pentagon’s ambitions. Still, Russia is developing its military space science programs as well, but we manage to have a great deal of cooperation with them. China’s move was foolish.

Brainless commie shitheads …

[quote=“gao_bo_han”] China’s move was foolish.[/quote] How so? They proved that for somewhat between 15 - 50 million bucks, they can take out several hundred million dollars’ worth of America’s military and communication infrastructure. What will be the value of SDI/Star Wars when a couple of key satellites are pulverized? That’d poke one hell of a hole in the defense strategy. Which is probably the point, is it not? They’ve effectively demonstrated the value for money that the US can expect if it chooses to invest heavily in a space-based defensive shield.

Now since they’re opposed to such plans, how was their move foolish?

Because the US and China were just beginning to develop good space relations. The NASA Administrator, Michael Griffin, visited Beijing last year, marking the first time a NASA Administrator had ever been to China for an official visit. The title of this thread is “US halts China space ventures”, but it really should be “US halts US-China space ventures”. We’ve had fantastic cooperation with the RKA (the Russian space agency) over the past 15 years. There were high hopes the same could happen with China. I’ll agree with you their little stunt showed they’ve got power, but it doesn’t exactly bolster US-China space cooperation, a goal that last September Beijing claimed to be committed to.

And what’s that cooperation worth? I mean, seriously, a private company will launch their satellites if need be. Cooperation in space is nice, but how’s it stack up against missile defense, or rather, allowing a strategic competitor to act under the assumption that it enjoys the protection of a nuclear umbrella?

What can I say? I guess that cooperation is worth nothing to them. The Russian President declared last year or the year before that the “arms race is not over with the US”, and yet the RKA and NASA enjoy good relations.