U.S. Immigration Debate


#101

Yes I know that this isn’t a new issue but I didn’t follow the last race enough to know where they were on this. As for the race card, that can always be played in any issue. It is a factor in this one, but not the motivating factor, which is what should be focused on=limiting illegal imagrants (sp) who want to work and make a contribution to the society and back home. *rant on *God forbid should the fat complaining Minutemen who are ‘patrolling’ the boarders from people who have more courge to do something with their lives no matter what the cost. rant over

Fine, if we need create a plan to control illegal immigration it should be focused on that. Not on just Mexican illegal immigration.


#102

I agree, the problem of illegal immigration should be addressed at all points, but it has to start somewhere, and right now the Mexican border is where its at.


#103

That’s what “they” whould like you to believe. When the fact is, illegal immigration is taking place all over the place. It seems via the esteemed unbaised media :unamused: is giving you the true picture of how much illegal immigration we have. Funny thing is it’s not just illegal immigration that pisses of the goverment, it’s the unpaid taxes they aren’t geting from all those people who are running over to America to get a job.


#104

That’s what “they” whould like you to believe. When the fact is, illegal immigration is taking place all over the place. It seems via the esteemed unbaised media :unamused: is giving you the true picture of how much illegal immigration we have. Funny thing is it’s not just illegal immigration that pisses of the goverment, it’s the unpaid taxes they aren’t geting from all those people who are running over to America to get a job.[/quote]

You are corect in stating that illegal immigration is happening all over the place, BUT, it is occurring at the Mexican border more frequntly than anywhere else in the US. This logically is where most of the effort should be expended. (Biggest bang for the buck) As we start to get a handle on this major area, then resources will be reallocated to the other areas. We will never be able to completely stop illegal immigration, but we should be able to make a sizable dent in it.

It’s not just the government that is pissed off about the unpaid taxes. It pisses me off that these people can come across the border illegally, use our public services for free while taking whatever money they are making and sending it back to Mexico. All of this while I am expected to pay my US taxes, even when I don’t live in the country.


#105

Being upset about unpaid taxes is completely justified, since taxes maintain many hospitals and other services. Pick a big city in the Southwest and go see who uses the big Taxpayer Funded Public Hospitals. You’ll find a big, big chunck of them are illegal immigrants who have no insurance, pay no income taxes, and can’t afford to pay up front for the service. Then when they get out they disappear and it gets chalked up to the taxpayer’s dime, so I’d say the government is completely justified if it wants illegals to pay taxes like the rest of us.


#106

[quote=“JMcNeill”]

It’s not just the government that is pissed off about the unpaid taxes. It pisses me off that these people can come across the border illegally, use our public services for free while taking whatever money they are making and sending it back to Mexico. All of this while I am expected to pay my US taxes, even when I don’t live in the country.[/quote]

Golly, it just kills me how steamed people can get about a group of people who choose to do work, that no one else wants to do, and support their families by doing it and putting their lives at risk to do. :unamused: I don’t buy that arguement. It pisses me off that I don’t live in the country, and have to pay US taxes for a war I don’t care for, government subidies that I think are unnecessary, and watch my tax dollars get diverted from public programs that would eventually in the long run improve society. But you know people who want to work for pitiful wages and support their families at the risk of their lives should be stopped as they are more of a threat. :unamused:


#107

You would prefer to live in a society that allowed the sick and injured to suffer?


#108

[quote=“Namahottie”]

Golly, it just kills me how steamed people can get about a group of people who choose to do work, that no one else wants to do, and support their families by doing it and putting their lives at risk to do. :unamused: I don’t buy that arguement. It pisses me off that I don’t live in the country, and have to pay US taxes for a war I don’t care for, government subidies that I think are unnecessary, and watch my tax dollars get diverted from public programs that would eventually in the long run improve society. But you know people who want to work for pitiful wages and support their families at the risk of their lives should be stopped as they are more of a threat. :unamused:[/quote]

I don’t buy the bulshit about these people risking their lives to imigrate ILLEGALLY do work that no one else wants to do. Once we get the illegal immigration under control, there will more allowances for LEGAL immigrants to come into the country without having to risk their lives. We are doing a terrible dis-service to those that are waiting to legally enter the country to work and support their families by continuing to let these illegals “risk their lives”.
Why is the US the only country that is not allowed to enforce it’s immigration laws? Please name for me one other country that allows people to sneak across their border, work tax free, and still claim a right to use health care and educational services of the country that they are illegally in.

I’m all for people coming to America to make a better life for themselves and their families. That is what America is all about. I’m just not for people breaking our laws and making it difficult, if not nearly impossible, for others to do it legally.
I have nothing against Mexicans. I just believe that we should allow immigrants from other parts of the world to have the same opportunities. If we continue to allow Mexicans to illegally come across the border in great numbers, we take away the chance for immigrants from other countries. There is a limit to the number of immigrants (legal or illegal) we can absorb.


#109

Jaboney – No, I would prefer to live in a society where people that use public services contribute to funding the public services. Look, taxes are only part of what this is about. It is also about not having this double society where people don’t have full access to society and are forced to live on the fringe, so to speak. If people are going to be living here, they should get the chance to have full economic participation, including all the positives and the negatives, that other residents have. That’s why the guest worker program that goes along side border security is so important.

Nama, give me a break. I have absolutely nothing against people coming to this country to work hard and better themselves. My hope is that in 20 years todays immigrants are all happy middle class families with kids in college, cute little white pickett fences and yippie little dogs called Fido. The best way to do that, though, is to make immigrants full participants in society, and that way they can come in by the bridge instead of the river, work at the same wages as the rest of us, and not have to have a baby to tie themselves to the country. (rant over)

cheers


#110

The issue varies from State to State. In some States you can be issued a Social Security number and driver’s license, while being an illegal immigrant.

Although I did hear a funny joke by a latino comedian
“If you send back all the illegal immigrants, who is going to build the fence…send back the ‘wetbacks’ and there is no labor”

This was then followed up by another show with clips of the Minute Men fence project. “400 yard along 2500 miles.”

Personally I think they should offer amnesty during election years. Eventually Hispanic and Latino children of illegal immigrants are going to remember who helped out their parents and who didn’t. 20 years from now you’ll see the votes rolling in.


#111

Calling BS on this one. ac - In what states can known illegals do this?[quote=“ac_dropout”]Although I did hear a funny joke by a latino comedian
“If you send back all the illegal immigrants, who is going to build the fence…send back the ‘wetbacks’ and there is no labor”

This was then followed up by another show with clips of the Minute Men fence project. “400 yard along 2500 miles.”[/quote]It is a privately funded effort along one mans ranch. He has suffered tremendous vandalism from illegals over the years. And…its a start.[quote=“ac_dropout”]Personally I think they should offer amnesty during election years. Eventually Hispanic and Latino children of illegal immigrants are going to remember who helped out their parents and who didn’t. 20 years from now you’ll see the votes rolling in.[/quote]I see you are not familiar with the Democratic party in southern California.
Although most of the legal immigrants quickly decide their best interests and that of the USA are served by voting Republican.


#112

[quote="JMcNeill Please name for me one other country that allows people to sneak across their border, work tax free, and still claim a right to use health care and educational services of the country that they are illegally in.[/quote] I don’t know about health care and educational services, but Taiwan pretty much lets you ‘sneak’ over the border and work tax free :laughing:

Okay, having a more in depth discussion with a woman who has worked closely with the Hispanic community, I can see the arguements being made for sercurer border. But IMO still think it’s a bit of slap in the face to the hispanic community given that the last election Bush courted them heavily and they resonded with their support.

Ac dropout— even though you were quoting what another Hispanic comedian said, I still take offence of having you use such a term to get a point across.


#113

Nama,
Both major parties court the hispanic community for every election. I fail to see how it is a slap in the face to want to stop illegal immigration. I don’t remember either party campaigning on amnesty or open borders before the election.
I’m guessing we are never going to see eye to eye on this issue and that is fine. I’m thinking it is time for me to drop out of this discussion.

It’s been fun :slight_smile:


#114

[quote=“JMcNeill”]Nama,
Both major parties court the hispanic community for every election. I fail to see how it is a slap in the face to want to stop illegal immigration. I don’t remember either party campaigning on amnesty or open borders before the election.
I’m guessing we are never going to see eye to eye on this issue and that is fine. I’m thinking it is time for me to drop out of this discussion.

It’s been fun :slight_smile:[/quote]

Why do people always give up when someone doesn’t see eye to eye WITH THEM?:roll: Debates and discussions don’t always resolve themselves but open up a way for something new to be said/expressed/learned.


#115

For the most part it is just my nature to avoid conflict. (I’m sure this will be seen as a major weakness in the IP forum :blush: )

If I really thought something new would be expressed, I might be inclined to continue. I just don’t like going back and forth for the sake of going back and forth.


#116

Nama,

The comedians name is Carlos Mencia, has a show on Comedy Central call Mind of Mencia.
Pretty fun guy, going the way of ethnic comedians taking ownship of racial slurs.

You can find some of his clips on youtube.com

TainanCowboy,

If they want them to continue voting Republican, they best find another solution beside this “Let’s send them all back” or let’s built the “Great Wall of America.”

I mean quite honestly, a few of China’s dynasties collapsed from the economic burden of maintaining the Great Wall of China.


#117

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Nama,

The comedians name is Carlos Mencia, has a show on Comedy Central call Mind of Mencia.
Pretty fun guy, going the way of ethnic comedians taking ownship of racial slurs.

You can find some of his clips on youtube.com[/quote]

Will check him out. Hope he isn’t along the lines of Dave Crazy ass Chappelle. :doh:


#118

He doesn’t do as much character roles as Chappelle. With whole skits and costumes.
Not as highbrow as Jon Stewart type of humor, and not as fanciful as Chappelle.

He more of a stand up. He does skits, but they are not as involved.

There was one recently that really cracked me up.
He on the street interviewing gardeners about their position on the Immigration Bill.


#119

Bush supports open borders. His recent talk was a load of bollocks.

[url=http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=14965]North American Union to Replace USA?

The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled “Building a North American Community” published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration’s actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union

What is the plan? Simple, erase the borders.[/url]

The Council on Foreign Relations report:
Building A North American Community

And:
[url=http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15497]Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway

Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.

Once complete, the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process. The Mexican trucks, without the involvement of the Teamsters Union, will drive on what will be the nation’s most modern highway straight into the heart of America. The Mexican trucks will cross border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI” system. The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3 million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City.[/url]


#120

[quote=“cake”]Bush supports open borders. His recent talk was a load of bollocks.

[url=http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=14965]North American Union to Replace USA?

The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled “Building a North American Community” published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration’s actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union

What is the plan? Simple, erase the borders.[/url]

The Council on Foreign Relations report:
Building A North American Community

And:
[url=http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15497]Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway

Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.

Once complete, the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process. The Mexican trucks, without the involvement of the Teamsters Union, will drive on what will be the nation’s most modern highway straight into the heart of America. The Mexican trucks will cross border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI” system. The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3 million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City.[/url][/quote]
While I like the idea of organized labor, and the power that gives to the worker, how well do the unions serve their members these days? Do they needlessly drive up the costs of doing business? Are they reckless in their demands? Just throwing those questions out there. In grad school, remember looking at articles about nurses unionizing. Sorry for the vagueness it was a while back, but the concensus was that you wanted to avoid bringing in a union if you could, and save it as a last resort for a hospital administration that was unwilling to listen to nursing concerns, and whose operation of hospitals put patients and nurses’ licenses at risk. I don’t pretend to understand unions, I am just throwing a few questions out there. Seems like you’re article expresses dismay at how the super highway would undermine the unions. I don’t know if this is such a bad thing?

bodo