U.S. Presidential Debate Thread

Politics International Politics
21

I did catch a few new flip-flops in Kerry however. Here’s the best one:

  1. Invading Iraq was a “mistake”.
  2. No, soliders are not dying for a “mistake” in Iraq.

Clearly Kerry here wants to look like he supports the troops while at the same time saying their mission is a mistake. Kerry should have just come out and have said what he really thinks: “Iraq was a mistake and troops are dying for a mistake.” This is what would have really energized the Michael Moore/Dean base of the party. This is what they want to hear. He may get in trouble for this internally. Externally, the flip flop is just more of the same.

The idea is to claim that Iraq is a HUGE mistake, but with Kerry at the helm he can turn it into “victory” … What kind of logic is that? The Bible talks about this kind of thinking as tyring to put new wine into old wineskins. It doesn’t work. The wineskins burst. At least Howard Dean had internal consistency.

Democrats just need to CONSISTENLY say all of this and feel good about it:

  1. Iraq is a mistake.
  2. Soldiers are dying for a mistake.
  3. America is the source of most evil in the world.
  4. We are bashfull and embarrassed with our superpower status.
  5. What is best for America is what is best for other nations.
  6. I am embarrased to be an American.
  7. Peace will come by laying down our arms and showing we care.
  8. America creates the terrorists.
  9. We need the UN to monitor our elections.

and drum roll please …

  1. If America didn’t exist, there would be so much more peace, love and prosperity in the world today.

Bush may have lost the debate, but Republicans got a crap-load of new commerical material.

22

[quote=“tilkster”][quote=“Flipper”][quote=“kentsuarez”]CNN QuickVote on Debate #1 - 78% felt Kerry won

'Nuf said.[/quote]

lol. look at democracticunderground.com. every time any website has a pool, they unleash all their rabid leftist members to skew the poll in their favor. anyone who thinks a random internet poll means anything knows very little about how the internet works. :slight_smile:[/quote]

Jeez… Were we watching the same debate? I saw the one where Kerry clearly won.

Not sure if it’s enough to make a difference on election day though…

Martin in Luzhou.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the thrashing Kerry just gave Bush in the debate likely won’t matter on election day. Most of the U.S electorate has been as thoroughly duped by George W. and the Republican spin machine as Chewy “my verdict: even” Corns has.

23

I just want to say that i cringed and flinched and giggled whenever Bush spoke. He debates about as well as a junior high school kid. In fact, probably worse. :unamused:

But pinesay is right, it’s not going to matter because i suspect that not many American swing voters were watching anyway, since everyone has cable or satellite TV and something much better must have been on.

Hell, i’d had enough after the first hour myself. I try to avoid schadenfreude time to time.

24

[quote=“pinesay”]I did catch a few new flip-flops in Kerry however. Here’s the best one:

Yes, it was.

Sadly, they are.

Clearly Kerry here wants to look like he supports the troops while at the same time saying their mission is a mistake. Kerry should have just come out and have said what he really thinks: “Iraq was a mistake and troops are dying for a mistake.” This is what would have really energized the Michael Moore/Dean base of the party. This is what they want to hear. He may get in trouble for this internally. Externally, the flip flop is just more of the same.

The idea is to claim that Iraq is a HUGE mistake, but with Kerry at the helm he can turn it into “victory” … What kind of logic is that? The Bible talks about this kind of thinking as tyring to put new wine into old wineskins. It doesn’t work. The wineskins burst. At least Howard Dean had internal consistency.

Democrats just need to CONSISTENLY say all of this and feel good about it:

No, Iraq is a country. Attacking Iraq was a hugh mistake which has cost lives and a lot of money.

No, they are dying because Bush doesn’t give a damn about them.

No, the Republican party happens to be the evil source.

Only when we use it to attack others who have done nothing to the USA.

This is Bush’s mantra.

With a half-brained leader like Bush, yes.

No, it will only come by our attacking others who have not attacked us. :unamused:

We apparently neither create nor punish them: just look at how we let bin Lauden escape.

No, we work alone. That is why 90% of the cost in lives and money has been from America in Iraq.

and drum roll please …

Replace the word America with Bush and I will agree.

Yes, the Republicans are experts at creating commericals but far,far,far less skilled at actually debating issues.

25

And this is why libs are loosing today … across the board, in congress, in the media and possibly for the presidency. They made the same kind of remark when Reagan made a 49-state landslide victory. They called the American people “stupid” and “greedy”.

Perahps one day the Democrats will revise their playbook and stop insulting their “cusotmers” … But it is revealing. Liberals truly think that most American people are stupid. You see it come out each time the people vote for a Republican.

I can’t imagine treating my customers the way Democrats treat their customers: “Buy this, you dumbass! I am an elite. I know what is better for you than you do.”

26

Beautiful! This is the best! This totally shows the position the Democrats are in. Go to the following Web site (It is the DNC Website):

democrats.org/

Watch the video on the home page where they ONLY show Bush’s frustrated ‘looks’ while Kerry is speaking.

This, folks, is all they have. They can’t campaign on Bush’s words, because the substance of Bush’s words kill them. AND, they can’t campaign on the substance of Kerry’s words, because they will kill themselves. They have only the ability to campain on “non-substance” issues.

When the RNC video is made, I’m sure it will focus on the substance of what Kerry SAID.

**** UPDATE ****

The site doesn’t seem to be working, but reports indicate that I’m right: The RNC response video is about KERRY’S WORDS. It is called “Kerry vs. Kerry”.

27

[quote=“thebiggestnose”][quote=“tilkster”][quote=“Flipper”][quote=“kentsuarez”]CNN QuickVote on Debate #1 - 78% felt Kerry won

'Nuf said.[/quote]

lol. look at democracticunderground.com. every time any website has a pool, they unleash all their rabid leftist members to skew the poll in their favor. anyone who thinks a random internet poll means anything knows very little about how the internet works. :slight_smile:[/quote]

Jeez… Were we watching the same debate? I saw the one where Kerry clearly won.

Not sure if it’s enough to make a difference on election day though…

Martin in Luzhou.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the thrashing Kerry just gave Bush in the debate likely won’t matter on election day. Most of the U.S electorate has been as thoroughly duped by George W. and the Republican spin machine as Chewy “my verdict: even” Corns has.[/quote]

I listened to the debate – I did not watch it. From my perspective Kerry is a much better impromptu speaker than Bush, and therefore, was expected to beat Bush in the debate. The president did not make any major gaffes, and, as a result, he won. I don’t think it will make a difference. This election will come down to a few key states and the undecided voters will make their decision in the week or two before the election – not in the first presidential debate. As for my being duped – I am not part of the U.S electorate, as I am not a U.S. citizen. Good Democrats such as Zell Miller, Ed Koch - former NY mayor, the Dem mayor of St. Paul, Minnestora etc. support Bush’s foreign policy. You really think most of the people in the US have been duped? You don’t have a healthy respect for the “average person” or for "democracy’ then do you? That is quite an elitist statement! How exactly have they been duped. Could you provide me more evidence?

28

pinesay wrote

[quote]And this is why libs are losing today … across the board, in congress, in the media and possibly for the presidency. They made the same kind of remark when Reagan made a 49-state landslide victory. They called the American people “stupid” and “greedy”.

Perahps one day the Democrats will revise their playbook and stop insulting their “cusotmers” … But it is revealing. Liberals truly think that most American people are stupid. You see it come out each time the people vote for a Republican.

I can’t imagine treating my customers the way Democrats treat their customers: “Buy this, you dumbass! I am an elite. I know what is better for you than you do.”[/quote]

“Liberal” has become a term that is used to denigrate others because the Republicans have decided that anyone who doesn’t share their vision of America are foolish and naive do-gooders who hate the American people.Although there is not a lick of truth to this, it doesn’t matter to the Republicans because as long as they believe it is true that is all that is important to them.

pinesay wrote

In recent times, was there ever a person who was more attacked than Clinton? Calling someone stupid or greedy was nothing compared to what he was called but guess what? The American people rejected what was being said and voted him into office for 2 terms.

Does Bush love America and the American people? He is sending our troops to die in a foreign land even though bin Lauden, not Hussein, was the mastermind behind 9/11.

Does Bush love America and the American people? Iraq is costing a fortune and as Kerry pointed out in the debate, law enforcement and firehouses in the USA are being cut in order to fund police and firehouses in Iraq.

Does Bush love America and the American people? What has he done for the past 4 years to improve the quality of life for Americans? (Well, he has generously given away free “vacations” to a desert area for American troops. Unfortunately, the vacations are not in Las Vegas but in Iraq. :astonished: )

Does Bush love America and the American people? In a word, no.

29

[color=blue]Poll results from polling conducted May 14-18, 2003 by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland:

% of American public which believed as of May, 2003 U.S. forces had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq: 33%

% of American public which said Iraq actually used chemical or biological weapons during the American invasion: 22%

% of Americans who believed before the invasion that Iraqis were among the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001 and that Saddam Hussein was directly involved in the WTC attack: 50%[/color]

30

I have never liked the debates, because actually, they are not real debates. And here is the most accurate statement regarding these debates that I have read so far:

[quote][url=http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/blog_10_1_04_1623.html]If you went into this debate philosophically opposed to preemptive war and the President’s foreign-policy, then I’m sure Kerry sounded reasoned, measured, and intelligent. And to you Bush just repeated the same old stuff that you don’t agree with, which only added to the appearance of his being ineffectual compared to Kerry.

However, if you favor Bush’s approach to confronting terrorism and don’t have the same type of abhorrence to preemptive war and unilateralism, I suspect the president’s message came through loud and clear, and you were left wondering exactly what Kerry’s position, or plan, was on Iraq.[/url][/quote]

Yes, Kerry is a better impromptu speaker than is Bush. Bid surprise… :unamused: In a real debate, Bush would have hammered Kerry on what his plan is. Kerry keeps saying he’s going to get our “allies” to contribute more and stand with us. Bush could not, due to international protocol, call Kerry on this. The fact is, our “allies” (with very few notable exceptions) have nothing to give and don’t want to give anything anyway. Kerry hasn’t explained how he will implement his plan.

I could have debated Bush’s plan better than Bush did himself yesterday.

31

The best thing in that whole debate:

Poland.

Poland? John Howard must’ve been crying into his cereal when he heard that. “Poland!? Bloody POLAND? Well screw you too!”

32

[color=blue]Duping the People 101:[/color]

“In Samarra, the Iraqi government has tackled the insurgents who once controlled the city.”

Iyad Allawi
‘Good News in Iraq’ televised address to Congress
September 23rd, 2004

“U.S. and Iraqi forces launched a major assault Friday to regain control of the insurgent stronghold of Samarra, trading gunfire with rebel fighters as they pushed toward the city center.”

Associated Press
October 1st, 2004

33

[quote=“spook”]

[color=blue]Poll results from polling conducted May 14-18, 2003 by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland:

% of American public which believed as of May, 2003 U.S. forces had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq: 33%

% of American public which said Iraq actually used chemical or biological weapons during the American invasion: 22%

% of Americans who believed before the invasion that Iraqis were among the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001 and that Saddam Hussein was directly involved in the WTC attack: 50%[/color][/quote]

spooky, wanna take a guess what percentage of the french and germans believe that 9/11 was a cia plot carried out by bush against his own country? :slight_smile:

34

This is cringe inducing material:

dannybot.com/favor/howbushdid.wmv

as the twit says…It’s hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work hard work :loco:

Edit: what a shame that JK didn’t make a wry point about GWB’s long vacations helping to make up for the hard work :wink:

35

Kerry claimed in the debate he had been to Treblinka Square…there’s no such place. Treblinka was a Nazi death camp…the KGB HQ was in Lubyanka Square, Moscow. Treblinka was in Poland. Maybe he got lost again. Lubyanka, Cambodia, Poland, Vietnam, Treblinka, Russia…who knows where he was? Kerry doesn’t seem to.

fas.org/irp/world/russia/kgb/lubyanka.htm
auschwitz.dk/Treblinka.htm

KERRY: Well, let me just say quickly that I’ve had an extraordinary experience of watching up close and personal that transition in Russia, because I was there right after the transformation. And I was probably one of the first senators, along with Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire, a former senator, go down into the KGB underneath Treblinka Square and see reams of files with names in them.

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po … _0930.html

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

36

Hi,

As I prepared to apologize for interrupting the spitball fight here to ask where to find the full video of the debate, I was overcome by the video clips that I have seen. Those and what I’ve seen over the last four years cause one persistent question or theme in my mind:

How in the world did we elect that blatantly incompetent, muttering boob as our president in 2000?

Disagreements over Republican or Democratic approaches aside, that guy is a national and international embarrassment to all citizens, whether they know it or not. Has politics in America been so completely reduced to “sports fan fanaticism” that we have become collectively blind to this? Sweet Jesus, that guy makes me cringe every time I see him, and it gets worse when he opens his mouth, or more accurately, struggles to open it.

Really, Republican, Democrat, or Independent, can’t we do better for ourselves than him?

Seeker4

P.S. - Oh yeah (whew!), does anyone know if the full debate is available via streaming video (or whatever it’s properly called once over)?

37

Yet another example of blatant bias by the news media, in favor of the Democrat:
TV Networks Break Rules for Bush-Kerry Debate

[quote]LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - U.S. television networks refused to play by rules restricting camera angles and reaction shots during the presidential debate and that may have given a boost to John Kerry, analysts said on Friday.

“Cutaway” shots showing either Bush or Kerry while they waited their turn to speak were expressly forbidden in a 32-page agreement negotiated by the two campaigns to govern conduct of the event.

But from the start of the 90-minute telecast seen by at least 62.5 million Americans, the networks defied the rules by making ample use of split-screen shots allowing viewers to see the two candidates side by side as one was talking and the other was listening.

Tom Shales of the Washington Post added that despite efforts to even out the heights of the two men through camera angles, Kerry appeared “tall and statesmanlike” compared to Bush, who seemed “shorter” and “ill at ease” in the split screens. [/quote]

I noticed the news photographs on Yahoo tend to show Kerry masking Bush:

Or using high-angle shots to show Kerry as being much taller:

However, at least one popular shot did show Kerry wearing lipstick and rouge:

Fortunately, it appears that most Americans are not fooled:
opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005704

[quote]But in a postdebate Gallup poll, although a majority (53%) thought Kerry “did a better job in the debate” than Bush (37%), the results of more specific questions look better for the president:
Kerry Bush
60% 32% Expressed himself more clearly
41% 41% Had a good understanding of the issues
46% 49% Agreed with you more on the issues you care about
45% 50% Was more believable
41% 48% Was more likable
37% 54% Demonstrated he is tough enough for the job
[/quote]

38

Squid,

I agree that the networks should not have broken the rules but the truth is that the split screen showed both candidates and Kerry simply had better composure than Bush did when Bush was speaking.

Since Bush knew that America and indeed the world was watching this debate, then he should have tried to not react so strongly to what was being said by Kerry. (Honestly, didn’t Bush have anyone prep him for this debate or did he just feel that he was so loved by the American people that his mere presence would be enough to convince everyone that he deserves another term in office?).

Look, your man lost the debate, just like he will lose the election. I feel for Bush (nobody wants to lose) but his time in office is winding down and he now needs to focus on a career once he loses his job. May I suggest he write a book. Clinton did and he made a fortune. Oh, sorry, I am not sure Bush knows how to write. I didn’t mean to suggest he do something else he is incapable of doing. We have already seen how he is not able to handle the job of world-leader.

39

if these bumbling Bush performances keep up, electronic voting may be the Repubs last chance…it’s fascinating to watch some of you posters stick your heads in the sand and deny the fact that without the assistance long provided by the teleprompter, Bush gave a performance resembling a 12yr old.

the whole debate can be seen here:

go down the page a bit
FREE VIDEO Sept. 30: Click

40

If anyone didn’t get a chance to watch the debates, I can make a DVD copy of it for you. PM me.