# Uhm...Did America just steal some little guy's lunch and throw 5 bucks on the table? **URL:** \ **Category:** Money\ **Created:** [August 3, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989 "2020-08-03T18:36:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/21 "2020-08-04T19:04:50Z")
> [@Marco](#): > > I can see your point, but I don’t think that this is anywhere close to Venezuela. Venezuela attempted to nationalise most of its economy in order to attempt to redistribute wealth…poorly. You didn’t see the Democratic call outs for Trump to nationalize essential businesses? I see that as turning up the wind machine to see how far the reed will bend. That’s why I wrote “Neo-” before Venezuela. I didn’t mean to invite a mirror comparison. > [@Marco](#): > > Since China expects access to everyone’s market while maintaining unsustainable and unreasonable levels of protectionism that ensures that only their companies and media can operate in both markets, is this fair market trade? No, and I get where you’re going with that. Just don’t like when we go to get at them and shoot ourselves in the foot. It’s snot a good look. > [@Marco](#): > > bought by an American company so that my privacy is subject to US rules Well, I don’t much like that either. You want my data? Fine, but… ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/b/a/ba6620b7125ee69e9a9257bc22ae2c57579089b8.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Alex2002](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/alex2002/32/141057_2.png) [@Alex2002](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Alex2002)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/22 "2020-08-04T20:46:46Z")
Some programmers decompiled the program and found that TikTok collected the maximum amount of data it could, which is why TikTok was banned. > The app tracks users’ phone hardware that means it tracks CPU type, hardware IDs, memory usage, disk space, etc. > > It also tracks the apps you have installed. In addition to all this, everything network-related like, IP addresses, MAC addresses, WiFi access points, etc. are also monitored. It tracks if your phone is jailbroken or rooted. Some variants of the app have GPS pinging enabled, meaning the app was sending the users live location to HQ, every 30 seconds. This option was auto-enabled if the user added their location to their posts. The app sets up a local proxy server on devices for “transcoding media” but this was clearly an excuse to steal user info. The app leaked users’ email and secondary email used for password recovery and users’ real names and birthdays. After this information was released, the U.S. decided to ban TikTok, and other countries will follow suit. For TikTok to remain on the market, shareholders would naturally choose to sell the company to other states that are less “risky” to use these data for malicious purposes (as they consider). It’s not just “throwing 5 dollars on the table,” Microsoft was the leading company that showed interest, not the only one, there is still competition to buy TikTok. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/23 "2020-08-04T20:59:54Z")
> [@Alex2002](#): > > Microsoft was the leading company that showed interest, not the only one, there is still competition to buy TikTok. Does the parent company have any stated interest in _selling_? :ponder: ---
**Author:** ![dan2006](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@dan2006](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dan2006)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/24 "2020-08-05T01:04:25Z")
Hypocritical to blame tic tok for spying when western apps spy all the time. Heck, I can’t even say certain words without my phone recommending the same stuff to me an hour later. You can’t even delete fb because they will retain a link to you that they track through cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Marco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/marco/32/179744_2.png) [@Marco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Marco)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/25 "2020-08-05T01:36:23Z")
Yes you can. It’s why we have the GDPR for us EU nationals. The GDPR adds a human right. The right to be forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![schwarzwald](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@schwarzwald](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/schwarzwald)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/26 "2020-08-05T01:41:19Z")
From Supchina article (paywalled) The famous tech investor Kai-Fu Lee (李开复 Lǐ Kāifù), who was the head of Google China before Google ([mostly](https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/)) left China in 2010, compared the treatment of Google in China with that of TikTok in the U.S., in [leaked comments](https://twitter.com/ruima/status/1290530201361760258) that went viral on the Chinese internet. Our translation of those comments: > When Google exited China, I had already left the company. However, the environment and regulations were very clear: 1. Foreign internet companies that want to enter the Chinese market need to comply with laws and regulations, which are described very clearly (joint venture, ICP certificate, servers in China, content, etc.). Those who are willing to observe these laws can apply to enter. Google entered in just this way. 2. When Google later felt unwilling to observe these laws, it decided to leave. 3. The U.S. did not lay out what TikTok would need to do to continue operating, and never gave any evidence whatsoever to back up its accusations about the company. Forcing the company’s sale, giving only 45 days to do so, and charging a middleman’s fee — these things are not only incomparable to Google, but inconceivable. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/27 "2020-08-05T01:44:16Z")
The key might be just not let Chinese based social media to operate in the US, and prevent Chinese capital from buying social media companies. Otherwise the US would have to require tiktok and other Chinese social media to disclose their data flows . Since the US has done neither at this point, and tiktok is already wildly popular among young people, forcing tiktok to sell to Microsoft might be the only option at this moment. ---
**Author:** ![dan2006](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@dan2006](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dan2006)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/28 "2020-08-05T02:00:49Z")
Too bad N.A. doesn’t have that. You have the right to be deleted but never forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![schwarzwald](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@schwarzwald](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/schwarzwald)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/29 "2020-08-05T02:16:40Z")
Seems to me it has less to do with data concern and more with killing a competitor through state-sponsored means, just like the US cut down Toshiba, Alstom, ZTE, Huawei and now Tiktok. > **[Former exec of French firm Alstom: 'Yesterday Alstom, today Huawei, and...](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/former-exec-of-french-firm-alstom-yesterday-alstom-today-huawei-and-tomorrow)** > > PARIS (XINHUA) - The United States uses its so-called long-arm jurisdiction as a weapon to stymie competition and other countries need to join hands to counter such unilateralist practice, said a former executive of French company Alstom. > . Read more... ---
**Author:** ![Marco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/marco/32/179744_2.png) [@Marco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Marco)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/30 "2020-08-05T02:32:05Z")
I wouldn’t be against it. Why should we engage with a country that doesn’t allow competition? Why should they get to compete with state backing while we are shackled? ---
**Author:** ![Gain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Gain)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/31 "2020-08-05T02:39:59Z")
> [@schwarzwald](#): > > The famous tech investor Kai-Fu Lee (李开复 Lǐ Kāifù), who was the head of Google China before Google ([mostly](https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/)) left China in 2010, compared the treatment of Google in China with that of TikTok in the U.S., in [leaked comments](https://twitter.com/ruima/status/1290530201361760258) that went viral on the Chinese internet. Aka famous CCP shill. > [@schwarzwald](#): > > Seems to me it has less to do with data concern and more with killing a competitor through state-sponsored means, just like the US cut down Toshiba, Alstom, ZTE, Huawei and now Tiktok. That French guy just sounds really bitter. And no country state-sponsors more than China does. Every single relevant Chinese company is state-sponsored. ---
**Author:** ![schwarzwald](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@schwarzwald](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/schwarzwald)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/32 "2020-08-05T02:40:40Z")
> [@Marco](#): > > Why should we engage with a country that doesn’t allow competition? Makes no sense. There are many foreign companies that are extremely successful in China, even Linkedln with 32 million users. Here is a brief list [https://www.laowaicareer.com/blog/foreign-companies-in-china-making-it-big/](https://www.laowaicareer.com/blog/foreign-companies-in-china-making-it-big/) ---
**Author:** ![Marco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/marco/32/179744_2.png) [@Marco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Marco)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/33 "2020-08-05T03:01:18Z")
Very few companies operate independently in China and many of the brands listed are brands that come with a very-difficult-to-copy prestige value. These are few and far in between. It’s really hard to copy the secret recipe of Coca Cola or the status of Apple/Louis Vuitton. But MOST companies attempting to set up shop in China are told they have to make a joint venture with a local company…Think cars. Think uber having its business model directly ripped off by its joint venture and then outcompeted in price. Intel and AMD are able to do business because they NEED those CPUs to run their computers. They NEED Windows cause it’s hard to copy. They are dependent on those companies, but don’t think for a second that they wouldn’t clone whatever they can to make it in-house and cut out US companies. But for most companies, you need that joint venture and local Communist Party branch of your company and that even if you are ‘successful’ in China, you still can’t take the money out for reinvestment elsewhere in the company and HAS to remain in China. > **[Growing number of foreign firms shutting shop in China](https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/2067470/why-foreign-companies-are-shutting-shop-china)** > > Why foreign companies are shutting shop in China But I guess so many companies are trying to pull out because they’re doing so well… right? They were winning so much they got sick of winning. Amirite? ---
**Author:** ![schwarzwald](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@schwarzwald](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/schwarzwald)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/34 "2020-08-05T03:21:57Z")
Some more data on successful foreign brands in China, “KFC now sells more chicken in China than in the United States. GM, along with its Chinese partners, sells more than 3 million vehicles in China each year. Cummins (CMI), the Indiana-based engine manufacturer, was selling roughly 40% of its products in China by 2019. Indeed, American multinationals such as Yum! Brands (YUM), which owns Pizza Hut, KFC, and Taco Bell, have expanded rapidly in China. The number of Pizza Hut franchises more than doubled from 2009 to 2019. Meanwhile, McDonald’s Corp. (MCD) opened its two-thousandth store in China in 2014 and now operates nearly 3,000. Starbucks (SBUX) has been growing rapidly in the region and now has 4,100 stores in 160 cities in mainland China. Western technology companies such as Apple (AAPL) have also seen enormous success in China. The country is now Apple’s third-largest market (behind the U.S. and Europe) and accounts for 20% of its revenue. Intel (INTC), Dell Computer (DELL), and Texas Instruments (TXN) are among other tech firms with footprints in China.” ---
**Author:** ![Marco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/marco/32/179744_2.png) [@Marco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Marco)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/35 "2020-08-05T03:24:18Z")
So you can only become part of the Chinese market if you Joint venture or you’re too big to copy successfully. ---
**Author:** ![Andrew0409](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/andrew0409/32/69821_2.png) [@Andrew0409](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Andrew0409)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/36 "2020-08-05T03:27:54Z")
> [@Marco](#): > > So you can only become part of the Chinese market if you Joint venture or you’re too big to copy successfully. This has always been a BS rule. They just use it to steal IP. It’s why they can sell things for so cheap while being competitive with technology. Why spend massive R&D money when you can just steal it and know the CCP will protect you? ---
**Author:** ![Incarcerated](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/incarcerated/32/95714_2.png) [@Incarcerated](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Incarcerated)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/37 "2020-08-05T03:35:24Z")
> [@Alex2002](#): > > Some programmers decompiled the program and found that TikTok collected the maximum amount of data it could, which is why TikTok was banned. Well of course it collects the maximum amount of data it can, so does pretty much every single app. TikTok can not access things on your iPhone at least outside of the app. As soon as you install any app it is sandboxed from the rest of your phone. The only info they can gather is your registration/provided details, how long you look at each video, what video you watch, things like that. ---
**Author:** ![schwarzwald](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@schwarzwald](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/schwarzwald)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/38 "2020-08-05T04:23:02Z")
> [@Andrew0409](#): > > Why spend massive R&D money when you can just steal it and know the CCP will protect you? China spends more on R&D than the US. > **[List of sovereign states by research and development spending](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_research_and_development_spending)** > > This is a list of countries by research and development (R&D) spending in real terms and as per latest data available. Gross domestic spending on R&D is defined as the total expenditure (current and capital) on R&D carried out by all resident companies, research institutes, university and government laboratories, etc., in a country. It includes R&D funded from abroad, but excludes domestic funds for R&D performed outside the domestic economy. > Only those nations which annually spend more than 5... ---
**Author:** ![Andrew0409](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/andrew0409/32/69821_2.png) [@Andrew0409](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Andrew0409)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/39 "2020-08-05T04:25:06Z")
> [@schwarzwald](#): > > China spends more on R&D than the US Manufacturing economy vs service economy. ---
**Author:** ![Gain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Gain)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989/40 "2020-08-05T04:26:13Z")
> [@schwarzwald](#): > > China spends more on R&D than the US. That’s adjusted for purchasing parity, aka meaningless. [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989.md?page=1) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uhm-did-america-just-steal-some-little-guys-lunch-and-throw-5-bucks-on-the-table/194989.md?page=3)