Ukraine Invasion: General Discussion, November 2022

This thread is for open discussion on the invasion of Ukraine. Or special operation if you prefer. Feel free to theorize to your heart’s content on the topic, but remember that overly personal posts will be moderated. Flag posts that you feel break the rules, let @Mick or @TT know if something is wrong or you feel you are being overly moderated.

We appreciate your contributions to a lively and informative discussion. The rest will be deleted :smile_cat:

In fierce battles in March and June, Ukrainian troops have defeated the Russian forces near the strategically important village of Husarivka in the Kharkiv region.
I was there with the “Rendja” unit.
And there, while filming the remains of the devastated Russian hardware, I stumbled into Roman, call-sign “Podol” – a real Mensch, who even fights the war wearing a kippah.
And Roman told me a deeply moving story of why he – an inveterate Jew from Kyiv – took up weapons and ended up in this war.
Watch it. It’s profound.

6z1p6f /s

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Does anyone still believe that denazification was ever more than a pretense justifying an unnecessary war of aggression?

Just a convenient excuse. There are some Nazis in any country.

Germany has more Nazis than Ukraine. Does that mean another country has to invade?
They are a minority that is mostly excluded and kept in check. In a democracy one has to tolerate a lot. Only extreme (violent, criminal) nazi organizations, which pose a threat to society, have been banned in Germany.

When the first clashes in Donbas started many Ukrainian volunteers to go to war were very nationalistic. Not surprising there was proportionally more extremists among the troops at the front. This has greatly changed when all out war started and a lot of regular people joined the army to defend the country.

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I think that’s a bit of a loaded question for a number of reasons.

Firstly, there were a long list of reasons given by the Russians, denazification was just one of them and no one one here has said collectively all the claims made by Russia justified an invasion.

So then comes the second part of the loaded question which is to infer if so called Nazi’s in Ukraine didn’t justify an invasion (they didn’t) that they were in fact no more numerous or bigger a problem than anywhere else which all have the Nazi types including Russia.

But given and from what I see no one is arguing Russia had any justification to invade Ukraine, if one wanted to discuss the ethnic divisions in Ukraine and from where they came from, that is interesting so long as “but non of this justifies an invasion” is taken off the table as part of the discussion because as far as I see no one is suggesting anything the Russians claim justified an invasion.

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I was going for rhetorical, but yeah i wasnt expecting anyone to put up their hand and say “oh, me, i do!” :laughing:

Agreed

No, but there have been posts on the forum pointing out Nazi connections to the Azov battalion, etc.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to infer this. On the comparative Nazi scale, i would lean towards Putin’s war of aggression making Russia very clearly the state that currently resembles Nazi Germany, with zero competition

Well, Russia is, right?

When you have German Nazi military battalions that go unchecked, have their own TV channel, or said people threatening the Chancellor with death if they sign any peace treaty, then, I think you could then make an analogy with Ukraine.
And in Germany aren’t people arrested and imprisoned for saying the holocaust did not happen? Swastikas are banned. What else is banned?
Many Germans have WW2 guilt, do any Ukrainians?

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Not that those Ukranian Nazis justify the Russian invasion, of course :wink:

Nazi’s have murdered German politicians.

You talk like the situation in 2014 at the chaotic beginning of the war is still the same today. Ukraine simply has no real nazi problem and never had. It is a minority that is overblown by Russian propaganda, which you sometimes repost here.

If that is the case, were the scores of western media reports on those Ukrainian Nazis pre 2022 ‘Russian propaganda’?

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Certainly not all of it.
Still not a huge problem that requires the country to be flattened, because a few idiots.

Media reports about Nazis in Germany happen all the time too. They set refugee homes on fire, etc. Do Germans need be liberated by Russian army? Definitely not.

As the cliche goes, you will be just as dead whether you drown in 6 inches or 6 feet of water.

The FT is a British publication, so they would be under no obligation to air a story like this especially if it’s only the complain of one person. My take is that there’s some push from the Japanese government to get this published.

Well, you can lead a horse to water…

If there was more than one person, they would probably report that. You’re just speculating that there is more there than the report actually says

Ok, that’s fine. But as a British publication they have no obligation… :laughing:

I was mistaken. The Nikkei owns the FT.

As the cliche goes, fool me once

Another excellent Hromadske report. This time shoot and scoot with a tight unit.

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I would hedge a bet this is at the least mirrored in other European countries.

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How can support for sanctions be described as overwhelming if 60 percent don’t know/neither or oppose?

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I had a feeling support would start to go south when I saw a YouTuber asking Americans about the war on the street.

Do you support sanctions? Yes.

Sanctions or lower gas prices? Lower gas prices.

Women getting drafted in Ukraine, it seems.
If this was Russia, it would be all over the corporate media.
Does anyone know if any of the refugees in NATO countries will be deported back to Ukraine to fight?
Are they draft dodgers? Especially males up to 65 years of age.