UN efficiency at its finest

news.yahoo.com/death-coming-just … 38292.html

[quote]Decades after Cambodia’s brutal Khmer Rouge movement oversaw the deaths of 1.7 million people by starvation, overwork and execution, the regime’s imprisoned top leaders are escaping justice one by one. How? Old age.

Thursday’s death of 87-year-old Ieng Sary, one of the founders of the Khmer Rouge, has fueled urgent calls among survivors and rights groups for the country’s U.N.-backed tribunal to expedite proceedings against the increasingly frail and aging leaders of the radical communist group, which ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979.

Several other major Khmer Rouge figures died before the court even existed, including supreme leader Pol Pot in 1998.

“The whole future of the tribunal is currently in limbo, and the possibility that hundreds of millions of dollars will have been wasted is now a very real threat,” Ou Virak said. “Most importantly, though, if all three die before their guilt or innocence can be determined, then the Cambodian people will quite understandably feel robbed of justice.”[/quote]

And this is news?

Well, I dunno. What would happen to them, exactly? They’d be jailed, with EU-grade medical care until they, um, died. The grim reaper comes calling for us all, and with a bit of luck the bastards believe in an afterlife. I wonder if it’s possible to be reincarnated as a tapeworm?

IMO, they should have used the Israeli method of dealing with war criminals. Quicker, cheaper, and more effective.

[quote=“IdeaRat”]http://news.yahoo.com/death-coming-justice-khmer-rouge-regime-012938292.html

[quote]Decades after Cambodia’s brutal Khmer Rouge movement oversaw the deaths of 1.7 million people by starvation, overwork and execution, the regime’s imprisoned top leaders are escaping justice one by one. How? Old age.

Thursday’s death of 87-year-old Ieng Sary, one of the founders of the Khmer Rouge, has fueled urgent calls among survivors and rights groups for the country’s U.N.-backed tribunal to expedite proceedings against the increasingly frail and aging leaders of the radical communist group, which ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979.

Several other major Khmer Rouge figures died before the court even existed, including supreme leader Pol Pot in 1998.

“The whole future of the tribunal is currently in limbo, and the possibility that hundreds of millions of dollars will have been wasted is now a very real threat,” Ou Virak said. “Most importantly, though, if all three die before their guilt or innocence can be determined, then the Cambodian people will quite understandably feel robbed of justice.”[/quote][/quote]

I think it is internal political forces inside Cambodia that have paralyzed the tribunal, not “UN inefficiency”, although I’m sure you could find some of that.

But maybe you don’t want to find the REAL reasons, you just want to bash the UN.

Accountability for the weak and impunity for the strong has never been a very impressive form of international justice anyway so it’s no surprise that the farce is falling apart due to dry rot.

If you’re referring to Begin and Sharon that wouldn’t work because they wouldn’t be eligible to run for prime minister.

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“IdeaRat”]http://news.yahoo.com/death-coming-justice-khmer-rouge-regime-012938292.html

[quote]Decades after Cambodia’s brutal Khmer Rouge movement oversaw the deaths of 1.7 million people by starvation, overwork and execution, the regime’s imprisoned top leaders are escaping justice one by one. How? Old age.

Thursday’s death of 87-year-old Ieng Sary, one of the founders of the Khmer Rouge, has fueled urgent calls among survivors and rights groups for the country’s U.N.-backed tribunal to expedite proceedings against the increasingly frail and aging leaders of the radical communist group, which ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979.

Several other major Khmer Rouge figures died before the court even existed, including supreme leader Pol Pot in 1998.

“The whole future of the tribunal is currently in limbo, and the possibility that hundreds of millions of dollars will have been wasted is now a very real threat,” Ou Virak said. “Most importantly, though, if all three die before their guilt or innocence can be determined, then the Cambodian people will quite understandably feel robbed of justice.”[/quote][/quote]

I think it is internal political forces inside Cambodia that have paralyzed the tribunal, not “UN inefficiency”, although I’m sure you could find some of that.

But maybe you don’t want to find the REAL reasons, you just want to bash the UN.[/quote]

Well,the UN is absolutely useless. You do not really have to look for any reasons.

[quote=“bigduke6”]
Well,the UN is absolutely useless. You do not really have to look for any reasons.[/quote]

Is that s joke? Because if it is, it’s pretty funny!

“The UN is useless.” Big Duke must be from the US. :smiley:

Not from the US.

The UN must be one of the most inept organisations in the world.

Just do some research.

C’mon, folks!
:no-no:
Surely we can find much more inefficiency within the whole shocking history that is the United Nations!
Crikey!
The former Yugoslavia for starkers!

Hehe, no I have no illusions the UN is a paragon of efficiency. It’s just that I’ve always heard so much “we should get out of the UN” talk from US conservatives that it rang a bell.

No doubt.
I have no idea if those damn Yanks have settled up, but a few years ago when I was in the vast circle (jerk!) that is/are the United Nations, they were in such vast arrears that it beggared belief.

Though it was nice of them to once or twice give us a ride to where the shooting be.

Lets not forget them letting the lunatic in Tehran address the GA a few times. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

[quote=“bigduke6”]Not from the US.

The UN must be one of the most inept organisations in the world.

Just do some research.[/quote]

I am NOT defending the UN from any legitimate criticisms. They exist and should be voiced.

I am giving a legitimate criticism of my own: don’t blame them for the mess that is the ECCC- at least without some sort of evidence and argument, and then say “you don’t need a reason” to be against the UN or that I should “do some research”. This is lazy and illogical.

Gingerbread man has supplied one, I have supplied another.

If you want we can start a list of UN uselessness:

1-Durban I
2-Yugoslavia
3-…

Feel free to add.

In the areas of science, culture, health, education, economics, agriculture, food, IP, etc, the UN has had a lot of success. While deserved criticism for letting the likes of Ahmadinejad, Sharon, Arafat etc address the GA or focusing on areas they’ve been unsuccessful in is warranted, it shouldn’t take away from the places where they do a great job. Baby / bathwater and all that.

[quote=“bigduke6”]Gingerbread man has supplied one, I have supplied another.

If you want we can start a list of UN uselessness:

1-Durban I
2-Yugoslavia
3-…

Feel free to add.[/quote]

Fair enough, like I said I was attacking laziness not defending the UN.

Last thought for now: I don’t think the ECCC in Cambodia should be on that list, which was how this thread got started. Some people just tend to have a knee jerk reaction to the UN.

You’re … kidding, right, cfi? With a very few exceptions, the UN impact on all of those has been nothing short of disastrous. It’s probably not an understatement to say the UN is directly responsible for a lot of poverty and the issues surrounding/causing it.

Some examples?

Agriculture (my favourite) : promotion of synthetic fertilizers, seed varieties, and machinery which farmers (in their current situation) cannot make use of or afford; promotion of methods inappropriate for local climates; deliberate denigration of appropriate and sustainable methods; subversion of market-driven innovation with subsidies and ‘initiatives’.
Heath : subversion of private health provision with subsidised money-sinks. Complete failure to address basic issues like sanitation and water, which (as usual) are being addressed using outdated, ineffective, and expensive Western solutions, usually with massive subsidy. Subversion of (or complete lack of support for) local businesses which are addressing these issues (eg., mosquito nets and composting toilets).
Economics : Promotion of energy-intensive economies in countries which are not rich enough to afford it and have geographies/demographics where cars, roads and factories are uneconomic.
IP : I don’t know of any country outside of Western Europe and the US where “IP” even has any meaning.
Science : a good fraction of people in Africa still believes in witches.
Food : more subsidy, instead of putting a rocket up the ass of governments which encourage environmental destruction and farmland mismanagement.

All those subsidies cause such enormous local distortion of the economy that things get turned upside down. In a lot of African countries it costs US$200 and up to find a hotel with a working toilet, $2000/month for an apartment that isn’t in a slum, and $10 for a bag of rice that would cost $2 elsewhere.

The only (big) plus point I can give them is for making available HIV retroviral medication at low cost, but really, the UN shouldn’t be getting involved in any of this. Their mandate is security: provide that, and all the other necessities of life will follow.

The UN also has a hand in promoting and up keeping historic sites. I imagine many of them would have otherwise been torn down by short-sighted governments in the name of “progress.” (And I wonder how many more historic sites Taiwan would have if it were a UNESCO member…)

You’re … kidding, right, cfi? With a very few exceptions, the UN impact on all of those has been nothing short of disastrous. It’s probably not an understatement to say the UN is directly responsible for a lot of poverty and the issues surrounding/causing it.

Some examples?

Agriculture (my favourite) : promotion of synthetic fertilizers, seed varieties, and machinery which farmers (in their current situation) cannot make use of or afford; promotion of methods inappropriate for local climates; deliberate denigration of appropriate and sustainable methods; subversion of market-driven innovation with subsidies and ‘initiatives’.
Heath : subversion of private health provision with subsidised money-sinks. Complete failure to address basic issues like sanitation and water, which (as usual) are being addressed using outdated, ineffective, and expensive Western solutions, usually with massive subsidy. Subversion of (or complete lack of support for) local businesses which are addressing these issues (eg., mosquito nets and composting toilets).
Economics : Promotion of energy-intensive economies in countries which are not rich enough to afford it and have geographies/demographics where cars, roads and factories are uneconomic.
IP : I don’t know of any country outside of Western Europe and the US where “IP” even has any meaning.
Science : a good fraction of people in Africa still believes in witches.
Food : more subsidy, instead of putting a rocket up the ass of governments which encourage environmental destruction and farmland mismanagement.

All those subsidies cause such enormous local distortion of the economy that things get turned upside down. In a lot of African countries it costs US$200 and up to find a hotel with a working toilet, $2000/month for an apartment that isn’t in a slum, and $10 for a bag of rice that would cost $2 elsewhere.

The only (big) plus point I can give them is for making available HIV retroviral medication at low cost, but really, the UN shouldn’t be getting involved in any of this. Their mandate is security: provide that, and all the other necessities of life will follow.[/quote]

UNESCO, WHO, WIPO, the list goes on. All successful agencies.