Yeah seen many. Off the top of my head I can think of Aachen, Hamilton college, UCLA, UW and TU Munich. All were disappointed in the quality of the universities though lol.
Thatâs how most Taiwanese students learn vocabulary here.
I think it goes to the use of zhuyin as a crutch means English phonics is also seen as a crutch. âYou should just memorize the shape of the wordâ.
Thereâs actually an incredible about of research on the importance of explicit phonics instruction for English, and that adults in the US who werenât explicitly taught phonics as kids continue to struggle to read (at the age of 40+). Thatâs not to say theyâre illiterate, but it takes them longer to read and they donât read for enjoyment because of the struggle.
I will spend an entire 45 minute class period having students sound our three or four CVC words (as 8th graders) because they say things like âéŁć âem-oooâ éé çéŁçè©â because they donât know how to say âmopâ and literally donât know how to sound it out.
I have ninth graders who canât tell the difference between âheâ, âitâ, âweâ, âifâ, âonâ, âinâ, âorâ, and just about every other two letter word. Itâs thanks to never being taught to sound things out. But they can all spell better than me.
The problem is that I have yet to encounter a Taiwanese English teacher who doesnât have students memorize spelling, not sounds. Fighting a loosing battle. English isnât Chinese and until Taiwan recognizes that, there will be a very limited population with even moderate English competency.
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I can see that. : D
Guy
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Blockquote SEA students Iâve met are smart and hard working, they have to be outstanding in their home country to get a scholarship to come to Taiwan.
As the hook-nosed one in the thread said, ethnicity isnât a great predictor. There are excellent SEA students at some of the top universities in Asia, the US, and EU. However the ones that arenât wealthy enough to travel afar for their education go to Taiwan as itâs the second best thing. Same goes for Eastern Europeans, Americans, Canadians in these programs. They arenât sending their best.
The teachers arenât much better. Iâve made a lot of money ghostwriting their papers, and building the powerpoint decks that form the bread and butter of their curriculum.
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Not the first time Iâve misspelled/t that exact word on this forum
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This place affects the best of us.
Guy
[quote=âEnglishTsai, post:24, topic:190715â]
However the ones that arenât wealthy enough to travel afar for their education go to Taiwan
[/quote]Makes sense. I suppose a degree from a Taiwanese university carries more weight in their home country than the same degree would for a western counterpart.
I hope that can be my new âmonikerâ or whatever you call it. Do I need to ask @yyy to please make that my title? Although I am a goy.
Honestly, Iâve experienced the quality of so-called âeliteâ schools in the West and in Taiwan. âEliteâ says far more about âŹÂ„ÂŁ$ and influence than teaching quality and graduate potential. I donât put faith in those pedigrees. Just ask @nz about those illustrious Fulbright scholars. Ha!
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Wealthy doesnât equal best. Iâve taught students from rich families who were fantastic. Iâve also taught students from rich families who were dumb entitled little sh*ts. Iâve taught poor students who were fantastic. Iâve also taught poor students who were dumb, but at least no poor students have been entitled little sh#ts.
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Itâs not about teaching quality, but itâs hard to get into elite schools unless you have talent, academic aptitude, and ambition. Elite meaning Ivy league, Oxbrige, London school of economics, Tsinghua. Only a certain type of student get into them in most cases. Admissions standard are much higher.
And the right family background, which provides the applicant with the education, skills, and connections that help a great deal in entering such schools.
Elite schools are a class thing. Sure, those from less wealthy backgrounds can get into them, but itâs a much harder road for them.
In 2017, a team led by the Harvard economist Raj Chetty found that students coming from families in the top 1 percentâthose who make more than $630,000 a yearâare 77 times more likely to be admitted to and attend an Ivy League school than students coming from families who make less than $30,000 a year. Furthermore, the study found that 38 elite colleges have more students who come from families in the top 1 percent than students who come from the bottom 60 percent (families making less than $65,000 a year). In other research, Anthony Carnevale and Jeff Strohl, of Georgetown Universityâs Center on Education and the Workforce, have documented how just 14 percent of undergraduates at the most competitive schoolsâplaces like Stanford, Princeton, and Columbiaâcome from families who make up the bottom half of U.S. income distribution.
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This is my point. Eager students taught by mediocre tenured relics. Many more affordable schools have higher quality education with lower tuition. Schools where teachers are paid to TEACH, not research and various other duties.
The whole scandal with one of Taiwanâs elite schools getting caught lying to an accreditation association demonstrates that they had no profs with practical experience and had to falsify records.
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From what Iâve seen, acceptance of foreign students tends to be on the basis of what scholarships theyâve received from the government. Often the MOFA or ICDF scholarships will guarantee acceptance. These students are a mixed bunch, some are the smartest people Iâve ever met, others struggle with basic concepts.
That could be the reason. Didnât think of it that way before. Went to an American kiddie school and had a tutor till some point in grade school. Perhaps most students didnât learn English the way I did. I am sure that they know phonics but they just wouldnât read it out. Perhaps they do this in a different way in public schools.
I even got one student whose parents ask me to teach her kk so she could ace the tests at her bushiban. Her teacher at the bushiban would write the kk symbols and ask the students to spell the English word. Quite absurd if you ask me. Eventually we canât stand each other no more and we ended the class. But I managed to get her parents to find an american tutor for the brother, learning phonics. Kk might suit the sister well but itâs not for the brother.
You know I actually typed all that while waiting for my odenđą
And know Iâm home enjoying my piggy blood curds, I have second thought. We actually âspellâ with zhuin too. We learn to speak and then we learn to write/spell zhuin. Not so much different from Americans. Yet somehow students just refuse to do that when it comes to English. I learned Japanese here and everyone in the class were more than happy to speak Japanese. But no one wants to speak English in English classes.
Is it the pronunciation that makes the difference? Perhaps itâs more difficult for Taiwanese to pronounce English words so theyâd just avoid it as much as they could?
I donât know how to change these thing as class and wealth differences will always be there. But IME, I meet far more excellent and ambitious students going to these schools than regular schools. Not just from a academic stand point, they have better life habits for success and understanding of how go into professional situations.
For example, I went to a top 25 B school for undergrad in the US. Not quite elite but a top school. I am now finishing up that degree (my last week) at a small school using their distance learning program for my last 2 terms. I find their actual program comparable in quality, and may even give an edge to my current average school vs the top school. One reason is because all my professors are professionals that are adjunct professors. In my top B school, many âgreatâ professors are academics that have never left academia. Some of them are just horrible teachers and know nothing about real life.
But the big difference is, many students in my current uni that interact with are average. They are fine with it. Rarely do I see another student push for excellence, and I had to keep reminding myself I should not lower my standards even though I really could and get pretty good grades.
And I can definitely understand how itâs a harder road. This is why Iâm leveraging my grades to go into a top school again in the UK. Some jobs wonât even give me a chance if I donât go to a prestigious school. And the biggest challenge is my school doesnât have the connection to prestigious firms. This is why Harvard or Wharton grads can get into these jobs, the school has connections for them to network.
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Yup, this is the case. I wrote to @lostinasia about my experience learning in a top school and a small state school. I find the small state schools education better with professors that are professionals in their field vs academics who never left academia.
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Whatâs this about? Any link?
Guy
This is super encouraging and reaffirming of my experiences as well. I had the credentials to attend several high ranked universities for my undergrad, but couldnât afford it. Chose a âsecondâ tier school and flourished, knew my profs personally, and had great recommendations. Glad I took that route. Met some âeliteâ school grads who didnât know their arse from a hole in the ground.
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I think itâs still worth going to at least a good school. But it depends on the job. For some jobs, itâs almost a requirement to go into a top to elite school. Some it doesnât matter. I canât speak about what fields, but itâs really hard and almost impossible to go into banking without going to a elite school.
TBH, Undergrad doesnât make a big difference in most cases. But going to a top grad school is rather important imo.