University program enrollment on the decline

Maybe it has to do with the department?

Seems unlikely, but could you elaborate on what you mean? Do you mean that @nz only has experience with one particularly bad department, or that English departments won’t have profs with good English?

There are a lot of possible reasons to explain why @nz has had this experience, but mine has been quite different including with profs not at the vaunted national universities, who aren’t in English or linguistics, who haven’t studied abroad

I’d guess @nz maybe hasn’t interacted with as many profs as I have, and possibly those profs weren’t as invested in the conversation as I have experienced. But again, many possibilities for the different experiences

The fact remains @BiggusDickus and I work at universities and know plenty of professors whose English is good enough

@DogmaticStoic, have you had any interactions in English with local profs as you get ready for your PhD? What has your experience been?

My experiences generally align with those of @TT and @BiggusDickus. Many of the faculty I interact with at my national university speak English well, especially those in the English department.

As for the non-English department I work in, I would say that about 50% of full-time local faculty (not including adjuncts) speak English and could teach courses in English (some already do). For the remaining faculty, I do not interact with 30% of the faculty enough to make a judgement but I would guess some (probably not all) of that percentage could speak/teach through English if they had to, and 20% do not speak much English and certainly couldn’t teach through it.

That being said, the MOE’s estimates are less optimistic, and perhaps better support the point made by @nz: “As estimated, full-time teachers in general universities that are capable of EMI teaching accounted for approximately 15% of all full-time faculty (approximately 6,960 persons) in Taiwan at present, with additional part-time faculty amounted to approximately 1,700 persons” (MOE, 2021, p. 4).

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Engineering departments are going to struggle to the point that English instruction won’t ever be possible IMO. English and linguistics will have no trouble. IME they already teach in English.

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Fortunately, nobody is expecting all professors everywhere to teach only in English. The fun thing about BIlingualism is it goes both ways :stuck_out_tongue:

Years ago I was part of the faculty of an English dept of a local uni. One on one we had chats in English. Granted: never had a chance to listen in on any one of my colleague’s, but I doubt they were lecturing wholly in English. Staff meetings were held in Mandarin. Doubt someone who cannot have a meta discussion about their work in an unstructured environment (meeting) with competent English speakers would be adaptable to using said language in a lecture setting.

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How many years ago and was it a public uni, if I might ask?

I’m wondering whether this might be a thing at some of the the more prestigious unis. At the risk of sounding ageist I could imagine some older, untouchable professors teaching English in Chinese.

EDIT: I’m muddying the waters here. A lot of lesson time is probably in Chinese. I mean professors who can’t even speak English.

I could understand literature professors leaning on Chinese to help get across some terminology or nuance. If it’s a language skills course, on the other hand, using Chinese would be counter productive (especially a speaking or listening skills course)

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Prestigious private uni 5 years back.

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It may be that Scumbag Polys have to try harder.

Everyone I work with, in English, linguistics, sociology and business, speaks excellent English.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they do, no exposure to those.

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Language of instruction of couse depends on the ability to use said language. But it also depends on habit and past practice. The older profs I know who have always lectured in Mandarin—well, even if their English is excellent, it’s very hard to get them to switch directions later. However newbies who have arrived from the US and who consistently teach in English from the start of their careers do so like a habit.

Guy

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Yes. I live by a private uni in Nanshijiao and the general slovenliness of the students screams loser. Of course, they are now preparing to close. Maybe the whole useless degree at a useless uni for useless students racket will have to wind up. They had a good run.

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I guess this is a reply to you and everyone else about my exposure to professors with crap English: I don’t work in a university and many of you do, so I have a bad sample size. It’s good to hear you generally seem ok with the English proficiency of your colleagues. That will only help Taiwan if they really are going full “bilingual”.

That being said, in addition to my admittedly comparatively limited encounters with profs here, I’ve sat through quite a few embarrassingly bad lectures (usually aimed at FETs) from professors from NTU, NTNU and NCCU wherein even them reading directly from the printed document in front of them, even as a group of patient people, we struggled to understand them. (being understood by a “patient speaker of the language” brings you down into “intermediate” from “advanced” on the ACTFL Oral Proficiency Interview. For reference, you’d have a difficult time getting a job at an immersion K-12 school in the US even with an advanced-high. They want “superior” or higher at all the Chinese immersion schools I’ve looked at. University professors should be held to a higher standard than that considering their salaries when compared to their workload.) They clearly didn’t have a clue what the meaning of the sounds coming out of their mouth even were, so I can’t imagine having a semester’s worth of content being presented like that. Even more depressing, these lectures always had to do with the value and importance of language exchange. You the professor couldn’t bother working with a tutor to have fluency in your speech, but you want the rest of Taiwan to engage in language exchange? “Do as I say, not as I do” exhibit A. Now, if most professors really have great English, carry on. Please ask them to lecture at the FET conferences instead of the people they keep inviting.

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Now they can apply directly to the hallowed national universities, who still need bums in seats. They aren’t really in a position to stay afloat with quality fee paying international students

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It’s still really hard for working class kids to get into those “national” (really it should be “public”) unis. There’s definitely a class divide here, and one that is deeply unfair as the private uni kids pay more to get less!

Guy

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Because their parents can’t pay for cram schools and tutors?

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That’s part of it. Also maybe the kids are working at the family business. Or maybe the parents have no idea how the system really works, or don’t have the money to move to the “right” districts to get into the “right” elementary schools or junior highs. A whole confluence of factors conspire against these kids.

It doesn’t mean they are less bright, but they are far less likely to get into the “national” unis.

Guy

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This is a big one for sure.

Shit I was hoping nccu would be the exception

Exit: oh Im guessing these were from the education department?