'Us and Them' syndrome

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
21

If you don’t like it, go home? I believe that is what people used to say to chinese immigrants to my country who didn’t like the food.

I think the correct answer to that is ‘fuck off, I live here.’

In a world where capital and jobs go wherever it serves them to go, the concept of living in the same place until you die is absurd. The world economy doesn’t really observe national or ethnic boundaries any more, and we as individuals can’t afford to let them govern us either.

We are each of us just as international as any big corporation you care to name. We are free to bitch about any stupid or backward aspect of Taiwan or Taiwanese society that we wish. We are equally free to criticise our ‘own’ cultures, or those of other people. Why? Because they are all aspects of the one world in which we live. We are not defined by our race or nationality, although they do have a lot of influence still.

The point of my original post was not that people shouldn’t be critical of inadequacies in the world about them, nor was it an invitation to start yet another discussion about the ways in which Taiwan is different. The point was that foreigners generally tend to identify themselves, individually, as being part of some mythical perfect culture and identify Taiwan and Taiwanese as being somebody and somewhere else.

‘We’ are really no different or better than ‘them’, because we are also them and we are all imperfect. Criticisms should not be levelled at Taiwan or Taiwanese, or at foreigners. They should be directed towards the individuals concerned, without using your idealised vision of the place you came from as a benchmark.

But I have to rely to this:

[quote]Complaining is okay, but it is not okay to

-Choose to live in the Taichung (Taizhong) area and complain about the omnipresence of Taiwanese mafia and ignorant drivers.[/quote]

If you come from, for instance, an area of LA dominated by drug-related gang violence and escape from that by taking a job in TaiZhong then why would you have no right to be unhappy if you find your life being affected by the presence of gangsters? (I have no idea if this really happens, I’m just responding to the post above.) Should you just turn around and go back to the crackheads in a neighbourhood where all the jobs have been outsourced to Asia? Or should you keep on wandering the earth in search of perfection? That doesn’t exist, so you might as well make the most of being where you are for as long as you can bear it. But that doesn’t mean that you have to just shut up and accept that ‘we do things differently here.’ Change doesn’t happen if people just eat shit. That’s why there are so many chinese restaurants in other countries these days.

22

Ok, what I wrote did sound derogatory, I’m sorry it came out that way.

I think it’s cool that you all live here. Taipei needs this global community and has always appreciated this foreign community (right, for the most part). Sometimes there is almost an inferiority complex among local Taiwanese. Besides the influences from Japan, the West has always dominated the popular culture here: Nike, NBA, McDonolds, Coca Cola, LEGO, Santa Clause, Hollywood etc. Everything hip and cool are American (that’s the assumption). While the local community (for the most part) holds a general respect to the foreign community, it’s sad to see that it’s not always true the other way around.

That’s the inferiority complex I was talking about - the foreigners being the mythical perfect modern men.

Looking at the clash between localism and globalism, do you think the “us” and “them” syndrome will ever go away? I hope it does. But again, I might just be living in my idealised world. :unamused:

23

Not derogatory, just a bit annoying to those of us that have made a decision to live here and thought objectively about the, er, drawbacks. Don’t sweat it.

I’m not sure that it is cool to have so many foreigners here, given the ‘quality’ of many. And I’m pretty convinved that many Taiwanese feel the same way. Who can blame them?

In a thousand years we’ll be one great big homogenous global culture with a MacZhiang’s in every town, and everyone will drive on the left. Everyone will have had the same great books uploaded into their brains, and will speak proper Chinglish as taught by computer. Advancement will be achieved by passing competetive examinations administered by the Republican Beaurocrat Council, which will control the UN, and instead of GMT we will determine ‘universal time’ in Mecca. No-one will urinate in public, and no-one will know the start date of World War Two.

Forumosa will be owned by Rupert Murdoch, who is never going to die, and will be a meeting place for ‘loosers’ - dropouts from civilised society who scrape a living teaching people the forgotten skill of ‘reading’. We (I’m not going to die either!) will spend our time here bemoaning the fact that our students don’t seem to ‘get it’, and bitching about ‘them’.

24

That’s funny really, because that’s exactly how I would describe the behaviour of both Chinese and Taiwanese communities living in my country (not the US by the way). Do you think having practically no social interaction either with the native population or other immigrant communities and making the decision to live and communicate almost exclusively with people of your own nationality or ethnic background demonstrates an ability to cope with foreign living? I often wondered what they were so scared of but I guess it’s just good old loss of face. I won’t laugh at you, honest.

You’re not a Third World country and that’s what is so disturbing about the fact your government can’t even sort out basic public services. Taken a look at your traffic lights recently? Check out your road traffic accident figures as well whilst you’re at it.

How would you like it if I called you a slitty-eyed pig? Pigs, monkeys it’s like “Journey to the West” round here.

Looks like you need to go back and consult some of those ‘monkeys’.

25

One of the few things I actually liked about Taiwan was the noisy kids I used to teach, back when I was a buxiban teacher. In the younger classes they’d be pushing and shoving each other to see who got to sit on my lap. No, it is rarely the children who annoy foreigners here.

26

so you used to put little kids on your lap, did ya …

not teaching anymore, are ya :smiley:

27

Hey, I’m a woman, and therefore above suspicion.

28

Or we could all sit around and make funny faces at each other
or drink too much and piss our pants
fuck at a glance
wild romance
move that body
dance

29

I used to have a tiny badge that said this both in english AND chinese, for use in the UK and Taiwan.

30

[quote=“bob”]Or we could all sit around and make funny faces at each other
or drink too much and piss our pants
fuck at a glance
wild romance
move that body
dance[/quote]

Get down and boogie!

31

Indeed. Children and ‘the elderly’ are easily forgiven. All others should know better but I suppose they’re still struggling to think for themselves bless’em. Guess that’s why Asiaworks would be such a revelation and (shockingly) a commercial success. If I possessed a truly, determinedly evil outlook, I could surely make my million from the local populace.

32

Umm … I think you mean “owe” … and since you choose to specifically point out North Americans as opposed to Westerners … it could be said that the democratic society, freedom, economic success, and increasingly higher standard of living in Taiwan is for one reason and one reason alone. Be careful about biting the hand that feeds you … that’s a dangerous road that the current administration is traveling down.