http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/18/1061059775382.html
Vale Mazen Dana.
http://www.cpj.org/awards01/dana.html
HG
Let’s see…American troops arrive in an area where there has just been a fire fight and a guy hops out of a car and points what could very easily have been an RPG at them. And he gets wasted. Sorry to say, it was his fault.
you forget/chose to omit the first half of the alleged story. the journalist and his team had gone to the US troops, asked for an interview with the officer in charge, was refused, then granted permission to get a shot of the overlying area. so, their presence was not just out of the blue.
the picture in the wire has him in “journalist garb”(?) with helmet marked with tape etc. but not sure what he was actually wearing at the time.
so it’s not quite like a car just tore up some dust riding towards the soldiers at high speed, and a guy jumped out suddenly whipping out something rpg-like onto his shoulder aiming for the tank that killed him. i believe his assistant was waving and shouting for the tank to stop shooting too.
Agreed. But perhaps the Israelis have better discipline? Or are they just worse shots? The chap had been in amongst it for an awful long time.
In any case I think it a terrible tragedy, albeit no surprise.
HG
you forget/chose to omit the first half of the alleged story. the journalist and his team had gone to the US troops, asked for an interview with the officer in charge, was refused, then granted permission to get a shot of the overlying area. so, their presence was not just out of the blue.
the picture in the wire has him in “journalist garb”(?) with helmet marked with tape etc. but not sure what he was actually wearing at the time.
so it’s not quite like a car just tore up some dust riding towards the soldiers at high speed, and a guy jumped out suddenly whipping out something rpg-like onto his shoulder aiming for the tank that killed him. I believe his assistant was waving and shouting for the tank to stop shooting too.[/quote]
Kenny, the tanks were driving into an unknown situation. The officer was there at the prison, the tanks were just arriving. Different commands different communications.
Put yourself on top of a moving tank. You are wearing googles because there’s dust. Some guy pops out holding something black and you have a split second to make a life or death decision. Still think it’s all so simple? If they wanted to waste reporters, why didn’t they shoot his buddy too? I can guarantee you from experience those troops are not very happy tonite and will have to live with this the rest of their lives.
"The video shows the tank driving towards him outside the prison walls. Several shots ring out from the tank and Dana’s camera falls to the ground.
Describing the moments leading up to the shooting, a Reuters news report quotes soundman Nael al-Shyoukhi, who was working with Dana, as saying they had asked a U.S. soldier near the prison if they could speak to an officer and was told they could not.
“They saw us and they knew about our identities and our mission,” Shyoukhi said, adding the soldier had agreed to their request to film an overview of the prison from a bridge nearby.
“After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters. We were noted and seen clearly,” Shyoukhi said.
"A soldier on the tank shot at us. I lay on the ground. I heard Mazen and I saw him scream and touching his chest.
"I cried at the soldier, telling him you killed a journalist. They shouted at me and asked me to step back and I said ‘I will step back, but please help, please help and stop the bleed’.
“They tried to help him but Mazen bled heavily. Mazen took a last breath and died before my eyes.”
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”][Agreed. But perhaps the Israelis have better discipline? Or are they just worse shots? The chap had been in amongst it for an awful long time.
In any case I think it a terrible tragedy, albeit no surprise.
HG[/quote]
“There are old soldiers and the are bold soldiers but there are no old, bold soldiers.” I’d say his luck ran out. And the Israelis don’t have to contend with RPGs.
FYI:
Reuters cameraman killed in Iraq knew his life was risky
Mazen Dana, who was shot and killed by American soldiers in Baghdad, “was a brave and award-winning journalist who had worked in many of the world’s hot spots,” says Stephen Jukes, Reuters’ global head of news. The 43-year-old journalist leaves a wife and four young children.
U.S. soldiers thought Dana was aiming an RPG at them (Reuters)
It’s a risky environment and accidents happen. U.S. troops even shoot and kill their own troops with surprising frequency – friendly fire is a major part of battlefield casualties.
you forget/chose to omit the first half of the alleged story. the journalist and his team had gone to the US troops, asked for an interview with the officer in charge, was refused, then granted permission to get a shot of the overlying area. so, their presence was not just out of the blue.
the picture in the wire has him in “journalist garb”(?) with helmet marked with tape etc. but not sure what he was actually wearing at the time.
so it’s not quite like a car just tore up some dust riding towards the soldiers at high speed, and a guy jumped out suddenly whipping out something rpg-like onto his shoulder aiming for the tank that killed him. I believe his assistant was waving and shouting for the tank to stop shooting too.[/quote]
Kenny, the tanks were driving into an unknown situation. The officer was there at the prison, the tanks were just arriving. Different commands different communications.
Put yourself on top of a moving tank. You are wearing googles because there’s dust. Some guy pops out holding something black and you have a split second to make a life or death decision. Still think it’s all so simple? If they wanted to waste reporters, why didn’t they shoot his buddy too? I can guarantee you from experience those troops are not very happy tonite and will have to live with this the rest of their lives.
"The video shows the tank driving towards him outside the prison walls. Several shots ring out from the tank and Dana’s camera falls to the ground.
Describing the moments leading up to the shooting, a Reuters news report quotes soundman Nael al-Shyoukhi, who was working with Dana, as saying they had asked a U.S. soldier near the prison if they could speak to an officer and was told they could not.
“They saw us and they knew about our identities and our mission,” Shyoukhi said, adding the soldier had agreed to their request to film an overview of the prison from a bridge nearby.
“After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters. We were noted and seen clearly,” Shyoukhi said.
"A soldier on the tank shot at us. I lay on the ground. I heard Mazen and I saw him scream and touching his chest.
"I cried at the soldier, telling him you killed a journalist. They shouted at me and asked me to step back and I said ‘I will step back, but please help, please help and stop the bleed’.
“They tried to help him but Mazen bled heavily. Mazen took a last breath and died before my eyes.”
CNN.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/ … index.html[/quote]
ok. that’s the story. i guess it just sounded different the way you put it. I’m not totally blaming the soldiers. I’m sure they feel shitty about it and all. it’s just one of those ‘friendly fire’ stories that you hear and say ‘that sucks.’ but it’s not like it’s his fault or something or he provoked them. but i guess i had to be there for myself to figure it out.
fargun double post.
BBC vid link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/39414000/rm/_39414963_iraq13_hawley_vi.ram
Of course he knew the score but it doesn’t make it any less of a tragedy . . . same for the dead working class yank git that thought a few years in the army and his/her degree’s paid off I hasten to add.
For me it raises serious questions about the US army’s apparent freedom to let one off. This has terrible implications for civilians wherever Baby Doc Bush decides to send the lads/lasses out to buy some domestic cred.
Blueface was closest with the RPG thing. A fair call, but the latest news flow would suggest a lack of communication at the very best (Cool Hand Luke?). Mistaking a modern camera for an RPG from 50 metres though?
Knocking off of civilians has been glibly accepted. I sincerely hope that this man’s amazing bravery will not end with his death.
HG
Sorry, double posted. I’ve edited it to show what I meant by latest news flow.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/18/1061059786862.html
HG
Nice headline. I wonder why they just didn’t go ahead and print “Insane American Yahoos Murder Jesus Christ”? 
Now we know where Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf is working.
US troops gun down cameraman in Iraq
Let’s see, what are the specs for an RPG7?
Well, the RPG7 fires an 85mm rocket with a velocity of 300 meters per second. It has a range of 500 meters and can penetrate 12 inches of armored steel.
Yeah, the gunner has all the time in the world. He should have taken off his googles and wiped them real good. Taken a close look to see exactly what was being pointed at him and his crew. Good idea. That’s a good way to wake up dead.
American troops are too young, too nervous and very, very trigger happy. They are unfit to occupy anything other than a toilet. Time to hand over the administration of Iraq to the Brits who are far more competent and can draw on historical experience. The Brits are far more level-headed when it comes to this sort of thing.
Bullshit. I guess you never heard of Bloody Sunday. Historical experience??? Are you serious or just trolling?
Both. Read The Great Game by Peter Hopkirk. The Brits were never perfect but they never pretended to be. The Americans think they are. Hi tech weapons, low-tech mentality and zero cultural sensitivity.
Typical Brit superiority complex. Maybe that’s why our low-tech, trigger happy farmers kicked your sensitive professionals out of America. Maybe that’s why you lost your empire. What do you think? Your pros couldn’t even get to the Falklands without US help and then look at the clusterfuck you made of it. You even had to use American maps because yours were 100 years out of date…And let’s not even talk about the wonderful job you did in the Balkans. 
But don’t worry, America is always happy to have the Brits beside us in a war. We need somebody to hold our jackets while we do the fighting…and anybody is better than the French.
Typical Brit superiority complex. Maybe that’s why our low-tech, trigger happy farmers kicked your sensitive professionals out of America. Maybe that’s why you lost your empire. What do you think? Your pros couldn’t even get to the Falklands without US help and then look at the clusterfuck you made of it. You even had to use American maps because yours were 100 years out of date…And let’s not even talk about the wonderful job you did in the Balkans. But don’t worry, America is always happy to have the Brits beside us in a war. We need somebody to hold our jackets while we do the fighting…and anybody is better than the French.[/quote]
somebody just got bitch-slapped. sit yo’ ass down.
Just to clarify. My intention for this post was merely to highlight a tragedy. it’s not meant to be anti-US in any way. But there does seem to be a problem
However.
Sheepshagger (perhaps a new Zealander?)
The trigger happy bit was certainly the perception I was given by Australian and new Zealand soldiers who fought in Vietnam and WWII. I couldn’t find it in a search, but I recall a huge uproar over a “friendly fire” incident involving US and New Zealand soldiers. I believe the kiwis refused to later work closely with the US and actually considered pulling their force, however small, out because of it.
I also heard much reference to the fact that a larger percentage of the US troops were conscripts. A less than ideal army. (Take note Taiwan!). Australians were conscripted but they were vetted to ensure they were willing to go to Vietnam. In WWII Australian conscripts only served within Australian territories, which unluckily for them included New Guinea.
Again, the shagger of sheep:
I very much doubt they’d want that honour. However, I’m sure the UK military’s protracted training in the “troubles” in Northern Ireland has meant that they are better trained in “policing” type situations.
Blueface:
Fair point. But that “incident’s” beginning to sound more orchestrated than accidental.
Again, Not trying to slag off anyone with this. The classic first response should be “what would I have done” rather than point the finger. Damned if I know what I would have done and awfully glad that I’ve never had to find out.
For me this latest shooting exemplifies an ongoing tragedy that clearly needs to be addressed.
I for one have been heavily influenced by the blogging from Salam Pax http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/ an Iraqi in Iraq who really doesn’t want to see his country in the mess it’s in now or taken over my the sorts of thugs that reigned over it in the past. Consequently at this point I’m not interested in the validity of going in, that’s happened. What I’m interested in is seeing a good outcome for the Iraqi people. Slagging yanks won’t help anybody.
HG