This is not a fight. Britain and The US were both asleep and slow and made mistakes. Not everything posted here not written by your goodself is hostile in intent. Lighten up.
Wow. Hard day at the office Monday morning Broon Ale? Lighten up yourself and then take a second helping 
Look. I don’t want to get into a personal pissing match. Of course it’s a hard day at the office but that sort of semi-condescending reply was unwarranted. Why is it that any response that does not exactly conform to your presentation parameters gets a sarcastic and semi-hostile response? No one has yet answered my question on the US’s ‘appeasement’ of Japan. Just a request to change the subject. Come on…
I disagree for two reasons.
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FDR was, IMO, pushing the US to a confrontation with Japan. If you look at US policy in Asia primarily directed at Japan and US legislation regarding defense expenditures prior to Pearl, its not so clear that the US was sleeping… the US populace, perhaps… but not certain segments of the US government. The Japanese will tell you that the US “forced” them into war with the US. Britain, by contrast, was clearly “guilty” of appeasement re Hitler.
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Regarding the respective spheres of influence… Britain’s sphere was its own front yard. The US sphere was half a world away. Appeasement of a threat in your front yard is a much more serious error, I think, than a failure to fully persuade your populace of the need to prepare earnestly to defend against a threat a half a world away.
Broon,
Take it easy… FS used the winky…
I’m getting senile… posted in the wrong thread!
It would have made all the difference if Nev & Adolf had had winkies to communicate with.
NOTHING. That’s my whole point. Why do you think they should have been there at all? It was none of their business. And you say “OH, kossovo ask for them” Says who? CNN? NY Times? Time magazine? No my friend.
What are the UN for, Peace keeping forces for etc…
Please don’t tell me that you honestly believe that the US Gov sent their guys because they were ashamed of that mess, of course not, they went there for only ONE reason, INTEREST. Same as Irak, you cannot possibly believe the war in Irak is to help the irakien people. It’s only vested interest.
Nothing was truly done in Kossovo, or Bosnia or Serbia. The failure of my gov. to do anything is not an excuse for anyting.
All I am saying Tigerman is that the US Gov. should really take a hard look at the state of its own country before trying to be a hero elsewhere.
They should stop thinking “everyone wants the Help of the US Gov.” Where did they get this idea from? And the result of this is what you can read on the 1st post on this thread. Your image is tarnished around the world by the decisions of that Gov in international politics it isn’t fair.
Having said that, can we be friends?
P.S. Sorry for the spelling or grammar errors.
Yah, instead the US really should start concentrating on getting that deficit down, says the IMF.
imf.org/external/Pubs/NFT/Op/227/
Hell, even Castro called the US a “banana republic” yesterday!! :shock:
boston.com/business/articles … e_wanting/
But another factor of resentment could be ‘The Hoover Effect’
[quote][b]GLOBAL
Alien:
What next? Bono’s views on the global economy? Whoops already had that didn’t we and Barbra Streisand’s views on health care.
These make interesting “studies” if polemics are of interest to you, but let’s take a look at the record. Did the Middle East (Gulf states) become richer because they were able to export their oil? Compare the standard of living before and after global trade and investment hit their shores. Then do the same for East Asia, then do the same for China and India and also which Latin American nations are the richest? Those that are most tied into the global economy.
The poorest nations of the world are those least tied into the US (and other Western) economies so what conclusions should we draw?
As to Ivorgeni’s comments, I would say, he is perhaps somewhat mistaken in believing that US help was not asked for. In fact, I would say the US was shamed into acting after waiting three years (Clinton after all was president and he naturally had far more “pressing” interests) in Bosnia while Europe watched. While the final results are not perfect, the fact is that only the US was able to stop it and demands rang loud and fiercely for years.
Now as to Kosovo, I would question your assertion and hence must assume that you are either Serbian and Greek. If the former, I understand the frustration of having a nation (strong like the US) aid in splitting off an area that is deemed and legally part of Serbia. An interesting question for our advocates of international law here. But, the US was urged to intervene by Kosovars, Albania, EU, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Croatia and especially Macedonia. The only actors who opposed were Greece and Serbia. So what’s your point? AND how would leaving it alone have solved the problem? Only if you were proposing that all Kosovars be ethnically cleansed from the region and sent to refugee camps in Albania and Macedonia I guess. Finally, we have heard all the rumors and again in this case, I would have to ask where or where is this famed oil pipeline that the US wants to build across Kosovo? Yes, I am afraid it is true. Like Afghanistan the loony left and paranoid political activists are convinced that the sole reason that the US acted in Kosovo was for oil?!!! or to build an oil pipeline?!!! Sorry, but if that is what you believe, then I am afraid the discussion enters into another realm that is really hard to debate since facts carry little weight.
I lament the US’ss failure to address the plight of the Roma/rrhoma in europe and the us.
tellingly, very few to none of the Roma Holocaust survivors have received compensation while the Others have received all the attention and funds.
their rights and social development in eastern europe even in former yugoslavia is deplorable. sure the serbs and muslims have killed, raped, and massacred each other while claiming to be the victim, but everyone has sh8t on the Roma. and yet we hear so little of it. The US, as our world policeman, has a moral obligation, as world leader, to rectify this situation.
Fred? over to you.
Jack Burton:
Nice try. I can see the tongue in your cheek (or are you giving someone um well you know)…
First of all, the key problems with the Roma are in Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and other member states of the former Yugoslavia plus to a lesser extent the Czech Republic and Hungary. Now given that the US is only keeping the entire world economy going with its demand and we are taking care of 90 percent of the world’s security requirements, I would imagine that such an issue would be of so much greater interest to say the Germans and French who after all are so much better informed than we mere Americans PLUS it is obvious that this type of moral issue (innocent people being denied their rights) should appeal to the consciences of the regular Leftie posters on this forum. Therefore I admit that this is not an issue of crucial concern to me. I sympathize but having numerous other priorities and failing to see how this directly affects the security interests of the US must reluctantly encourage our “friends” in Old Europe to do more about this problem, which is after all in their backyard.
Jack, Jack, Jack… what next the lost livelihoods of Karachis carpet makers?
Never mind the Roma, what about the Andorrans. They have been paying the Church in France and Spain (alternate years) livestock for centuries in order to ensure their survival as an independent state. This kind of pressure exerted on a sovereign state is totally unacceptable. When will America invade Iberia and Gaul to free the Andorrans from the shackles of the remains of the Holy Roman Empire? When? Europe can’t manage this issue all alone. The Andorrans want their freedom. Please Mr. Bush, save them!
(As well as a big duty free shop there is a lot of oil under Andorra…)
[quote=“Jack Burton”]I lament the US’ss failure to address the plight of the Roma/rrhoma in Europe and the us.
tellingly, very few to none of the Roma Holocaust survivors have received compensation while the Others have received all the attention and funds.
their rights and social development in eastern Europe even in former yugoslavia is deplorable. sure the serbs and muslims have killed, raped, and massacred each other while claiming to be the victim, but everyone has sh8t on the Roma. and yet we hear so little of it. The US, as our world policeman, has a moral obligation, as world leader, to rectify this situation.
Fred? over to you.[/quote]
I am with Fred on this one. Some problems in the world do not need US involvement. I spent a few months on a developmental project in the village of Svina in Slovakia helping out the local gypsy or Romany community. Communism and the entrenchment of old fashioned stereotypes in Eastern Europe marginilized the local populations. It is a local problem and needs a local solution. Sadly, ignorance still prevails. After taking a bus in the local village, I felt like a “freedom rider” in the 1960s. The local “white” population look at us in distaste with this “what are you do-gooders doing here mingling with this trash” expression on their faces.
Chewy
Broon,
That’s almost as funny as real life… just a year ago, Spain and Morocco requested the US to intervene to stop them from commencing hostilities over a little rock of an Island in the waters that separate them.
That said, the US DID prevent the conflict from Spain and Morocco from getting hot and are we credited with this? Does anyone say look the US saved not only lives but billions in wasted weaponry that would have been lost in such a conflict or the economic consequences of lost trade, closed sea lanes, etc.
YOU’RE WELCOME WORLD
[quote=“tigerman”]Broon,
That’s almost as funny as real life… just a year ago, Spain and Morocco requested the US to intervene to stop them from commencing hostilities over a little rock of an Island in the waters that separate them.[/quote]
kinda like what happened with matsu and jinmen.
Seems like there are plenty of “little rock” issues abounding. I remember that one. Might have something to do with those two Spanish enclaves on the N.African coast, Cueta and…I forget.
Gibraltar, though, is British…FOREVER.
Melilla.
Ah yes, Mei-yi Ya. I Remember her…lovely girl. 