news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u … inger_dc_1
Declassified documents show extent of US involvement in Chile (Allende coup) under Kissinger/Nixon era.
of course, i already know FS well-worn answer.
We “created the conditions?” What the hell is that supposed to mean? Cutting off aid, freezing accounts after US companies’ property was nationalized, talking tough about the leadership of Chile, what? BUT where were the guns? the money? the direct support of Pinochet? AND why given the lack of facts to support the view that the US government was behind such an adventure are you so willing to believe it? Hmmm? Cannot show us those can you despite the fact that ALL such documents were declassified under the Clinton administration. Where’s the proof? Where’s the evidence? Actually, most of the proof and evidence shows the exact opposite but let’s ignore that since it doesn’t fit in with our Chomskyite paradigm that ergo no matter what America is wrong.
Everyone is so desperate to point to any little example where they can jump up and scream America is evil, but in this case, where’s the proof? What does “creating the conditions mean?” Rhetoric? stopping aid? freezing accounts? By the same token, we have created the conditions for people to hate France. Of course, this is completely independent of any actions the French might take. If anyone hates them today, it is only because of American plotting, money and support for groups that promote hatred of the French.
Get a life. Fuck off you fucking fuck, fucker
[quote=“Jack Burton”]http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040527/wl_nm/chile_kissinger_dc_1
Declassified documents show extent of US involvement in Chile (Allende coup) under Kissinger/Nixon era.[/quote]
So another communist asshole is history…am I supposed to shed tears or what? 
BF, I suspect the families of the 3000 or so “disappeared” will shed a few tears. If you can’t empathize try thinking of the families of those killed on 9/11…oh but of course, they were mainly American so they are worth more, right?
Speaking as an American, Yes.
(And why don’t you tell us how many would have ended up in a gulag or up against a wall if the communists had consolidated their power ala Cambodia, Cuba, North Korea, USSR, PRC Vietnam, Laos, etc, etc? Care to speculate?)
BB:
My dear little naif:
How many do you think would have been killed if a civil war had broken out in Chile? I expect a damned lot more than 3,000. Also, Allende was responsible for digging his own hole. I notice that there are only shrieks when some right wing general takes over but it is fine for some man of peace like Castro, Ortega in Nicaragua and Allende to come in and gin the process because they espouse the “right” leftwing values. He had his three years to bankrupt the country. Bread shortages, power shortages, high inflation, rising unemployment, bank runs. Oh yes, and all courtesy of the CIA plan. Give me a break.
[quote=“blueface666”][quote=“Jack Burton”]http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040527/wl_nm/chile_kissinger_dc_1
Declassified documents show extent of US involvement in Chile (Allende coup) under Kissinger/Nixon era.[/quote]
So another communist asshole is history…am I supposed to shed tears or what? [/quote]
On the contrary, BF you are supposed to strap some bombs to your chest and walk up to Kissinger and blow the twos [sic] of you to kingdom come!
[quote=“Jack Burton”]
On the contrary, BF you are supposed to strap some bombs to your chest and walk up to Kissinger and blow the twos [sic] of you to kingdom come!
[/quote]
Jack, you’ve never lived in a communist country, have you?
BF:
I think that JB has lived only in West Coast paradises where everyone respects everyone’s aura or crystal or like vibes man.
I on the other hand spent a great deal of time in communist countries (good riddance to bad governments like those) no evil governments like those, but hey, who cares if the people are suffering as long as cheap-assed Canadians have a cheap-assed place to go and lord it over the locals while buying cheap rum and cigars. AND the country does not go and get all developed and shit. It remains in its pure and natural form. That’s what it’s all about you know. Stopping development unless its cute natives making lovely little handicrafts for students from Western countries who would be chucked out of any restaurant on the Riviera for being a filthy dirty penny pinching flea bag.
[quote=“fred smith”]BF:
I think that JB has lived only in West Coast paradises where everyone respects everyone’s aura or crystal or like vibes man.
I on the other hand spent a great deal of time in communist countries (good riddance to bad governments like those) no evil governments like those, but hey, who cares if the people are suffering as long as cheap-assed Canadians have a cheap-assed place to go and lord it over the locals while buying cheap rum and cigars. AND the country does not go and get all developed and shit. It remains in its pure and natural form. That’s what it’s all about you know. Stopping development unless its cute natives making lovely little handicrafts for students from Western countries who would be chucked out of any restaurant on the Riviera for being a filthy dirty penny pinching flea bag.[/quote]
[quote=“blueface666”][quote=“Jack Burton”]
On the contrary, BF you are supposed to strap some bombs to your chest and walk up to Kissinger and blow the twos [sic] of you to kingdom come!
[/quote]
Jack, you’ve never in a communist country, have you?[/quote]
did u mean to say live? does that count China.
and FS, not all communist countries all the same, talk the same, run the same, etc., just as not all democracies are equal, so your habitual group-them-all-together sensibility is pathetic.
How did you know which countries I was referring to JB:
And while you may have visited China, or even lived there, what citizenship did you have when in said country? Not Chinese I’ll bet so I stand by my communism is evil mantra. The only thing that is pathetic is that so many of you little snot nosed brats have nary a clue as to what a real nasty government would do with little protest fodder like you. One good massacre would just about take the steam out of the sails of most of you “concerned citizens.” A few real wire taps or informants that would lead to you getting your head whacked against a cement floor for a couple of days interspersed with having you head dunked into a water tank for a couple of days more even when your interlocuters never expected to get any info from you, they were just trying to make their point and let you go back home and cry to mama, would clarify your views and concentrate your attention.
So did you ever visit Russia or an Eastern European country before 1985? Those were the real bad ole days. Had you been to Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos before 1993? Would you like to be Cuban today? And I don’t mean some one week visit to Verdaderos to lie on the beach in a cheap package tour hotel with rum drinks graced with umbrellas. Whadya say big guy? hmmmm…
[quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“blueface666”][quote=“Jack Burton”]
On the contrary, BF you are supposed to strap some bombs to your chest and walk up to Kissinger and blow the twos [sic] of you to kingdom come!
[/quote]
Jack, you’ve never in a communist country, have you?[/quote]
did u mean to say live? does that count China.[/quote]
Yes, China counts. I was there in 1983. We were watched all the time, mail opened, Chinese we met were questioned by the Public Security Bureau. I was VERY happy to leave. I imagine you’ve only been there since Tiananmen, correct? If it’s such a paradise, why are people still risking their lives to escape? And if it’s so nice, why aren’t you still there?
Right, they’re not all the same…in some they speak Spanish and in others they speak Korean, Chinese or Vietnamese. But they ALL share one trait…they continue to murder their people trying to escape. Explain that…please?
Rene Schneider was not a “communist,” but a strict constitutionalist. In collaborating with and funding “Track 2,” the Nixon Administration and the 40 Committee “slept with the devil to get rid of the devil.” Yes, Allende was deeply fracturing Chilean society. But, Pinochet did exactly the same thing when he came to power. And in no way, was killing 3000 students justifiable. The Nixon Administration’s involvement in overthrowng Allende violated the spirit of American democracy. I am just glad that Chilean society has overcome these divisions and is a healthy, strong market economy today. Some may say thanks to Pinochet, but I say thanks to the Chilean people. To quote the late Dick Helms
“Pinochet overthrew Allende and moved Chilean society from the far left to the extreme right.” Chile was the loser at both ends of the political spectrum. It has the strength of the people to have overcome both devils.
[quote=“fred smith”]How did you know which countries I was referring to JB:
And while you may have visited China, or even lived there, what citizenship did you have when in said country? Not Chinese I’ll bet so I stand by my communism is evil mantra. The only thing that is pathetic is that so many of you little snot nosed brats have nary a clue as to what a real nasty government would do with little protest fodder like you. One good massacre would just about take the steam out of the sails of most of you “concerned citizens.” A few real wire taps or informants that would lead to you getting your head whacked against a cement floor for a couple of days interspersed with having you head dunked into a water tank for a couple of days more even when your interlocuters never expected to get any info from you, they were just trying to make their point and let you go back home and cry to mama, would clarify your views and concentrate your attention.
So did you ever visit Russia or an Eastern European country before 1985? Those were the real bad ole days. Had you been to Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos before 1993? Would you like to be Cuban today? And I don’t mean some one week visit to Verdaderos to lie on the beach in a cheap package tour hotel with rum drinks graced with umbrellas. Whadya say big guy? hmmmm…[/quote]
First of all, as usual, you change the subject. I was not defending Stalin, or the DDR, or whatever. and no, i entered China with a Chinese ID card, so hah, ball’s in your court, shorty.
I was talking about Allende and Chile, and Kissinger-Nixon involvement. focus, FS, do u need some medication?
As for wire taps, disappearances, and such, that doesn’t sound too different from the Chile post-Allende. Or perhaps you think it’s ok since it was conducted by a non-communist government. I see, beatings and tortures and killings are bad when done by commies, but acceptable and necessary and for the good of humankind when done by non-commies. (kinda like KMT in Taiwan in the good old early days eh?)
OOOOOH! Both barrels! Thanks
So Chewy:
Then, I am sure you would be more than happy to prove American involvement. All of the tapes and records have been declassified and unless you have seen something that I have not, I don’t see that America was directly involved at all. But feel free to prove me wrong. Put up or shut up.
Oh hold on here. Where does it say that these 3,000 killed were “students.” Just “students?” And what about Cuba’s involvement in Chile during these three years. I would say that Cuba was much more involved with supporting Allende from 1970 to 1973 than the US was with supporting Pinochet in 1973-1976.
So in all these Leftist screeds bewailing America’s complicity in Allende’s overthrow, why is Cuban support and direct involvement in Allende’s rise and government never discussed? Oh I get it because only America can do bad things, if it is Cuba, that must be helping the “people,” right?
JB:
Prove American involvement in Chile. Where are the facts? Support your argument. I want evidence here. Now.
Oh and don’t give me that I visited China with my Chinese ID card. If you ran into any trouble, you would have gone squealing to the American embassy faster than shit through a goose.
JB:
Also while military governments in Latin America also used torture (bad bad bad) the economy was never taken over so that left something out of the purview of bad bad government. This does not happen in Communist countries so there is even less room for independent thought, freedom, etc. This is why North Korea lets people starve. It gives them even more control over people when the very food they need to survive each and every day depends on maintaining the government’s good will. That of course leads everyone to try to curry favor with the government and that means informants who would turn you in for so much as a frown at the wrong time during the Great Leaders’ latest speech or a yawn during a political gathering.
What do you know about truly nasty governments? Republicans Abroad should get together and pay for one way plane tickets to all these leftie types on this forum to see for real up close and personal what true abuse and torture and loss of rights is like. I would be willing to chip in to do so. Anyone else?
Quite often, this is true. Jack, beating, torture and killing is the RULE in communist countries.