US - Israeli Relationship

Brune Ale:

I doubt that al Qaeda is interested in working within a democratic framework. Second big difference is that we can cut off their funding. Unfortunately, American Irish were supporting 90 percent of the IRA’s funding. :blush: We are better able to effectively block this now by turning the screws on the Saudis et al.

[quote=“fred smith”]Brune Ale:

I doubt that al Qaeda is interested in working within a democratic framework. Second big difference is that we can cut off their funding. Unfortunately, American Irish were supporting 90 percent of the IRA’s funding. :blush: We are better able to effectively block this now by turning the screws on the Saudis et al.[/quote]

You are probably right. And you are also right to be :blush: about all that f*****g Noraid crap that got funnelled over to support terrorism. But why discount the idea completely? There must be a way to find the root cause of all this? It cannot be based solely on the assumption that all al Qaeda are just mad lunatics? It all had to come from somewhere.

Well Brune Ale if you can find a way to accommodate the restoration of the Caliphate, the Islamization of Spain and Portugal and an ongoing effort to make all the world’s population even if they are not willing to do so, then please feel free to explain. And how many of our women’s libbers want to be barefoot, pregnant and without rights? Hell, what am I saying? Let’s accommodate the al Qaeda.


We need to accommodate the causes that gave rise to al Qaeda. If those with grievances have a democratic forum in which to air grievances, then there just might be a way out of this violence begets violence downward spiral. Why is this impossible?


Well AU:

Naturally, I hesitate to be such a unilateralist gun-slinging cowboy so I thought I would try to understand the root causes and if you cannot beat them, join them, etc.

Also, you have forgotten to ask me my favorite city in Spain. It is ironically enough Leon. haha


Well, now the Israellies have gone and done it gain, assassinated a importanto Hamas leader, an old man in a wheelchair, as he was coming out from mass at a local Mosque … helicopter missile got him in high tech assassinino…nothing like the low techo copper bullets used to shoot Chen Shui bian here… and now… the PLO is calling for major revenge.

And guess what? There will be a major revenge. Just to take our minds off Taiwan’s idiocies, look at this crazy thing in Mid Life Easy!

One of these days, there’s gonna be a nuke involved. Glad I am in Taiwan.

Anyone see Israeli Foreign Minister on CNN last night referring to Dubbya as Vice-President Bush? :laughing:

Finally that scum Yassin was put to an end, Israel should’ve done this long ago. Thank god there’s US who’s not afraid to stand up against the terrorists, unlike the Europeans who only try to kiss Palestinians’ bud and blame Israel’s action? How about hundreds of Jews killed by Hamas, the international comm don’t seem to care, talk about blatant double standard.

Pretty soon Europe will learn the lesson, do they think by opposing the war in Iraq will spare themselves from terrorism, I don’t think so, just look at the threat France got recently.


Good point:

I believe that Israel should start doing more to ensure that the Corsicans, Irish, Basques and anyone else in these “concerned” nations gets a lot more support. A LOT MORE. It would be interesting to see how the French respond to the Palestinian problem if they are so much busier with the Basque and Corsican separatist movements. I say Israel should open embassies in Basque and Corsican territory as well as say Catalan to ensure that the human rights of the people in those areas is adequately protected.



I believe that you were expressing a concern for “international law” and I am merely suggesting that the Israelis exercise their rights under said “international law” to “legally” open embassies in Baque, Corsican and Catalan territory. It has nothing to do with my feelings regarding Spain one way or another.

By the way, did you see that wonderful Walt Stillman film called “Barcelona?” I highly recommend it.

Finally, this issue is not about Spain but about the overall ostrich like approach to dealing with problems. I am still waiting for ONE person to give me ONE example of where and when in the last 60 years European-led diplomatic efforts have led to resolution of a conflict. Surely, one example should not be so difficult? Surely? Anyone? Anywhere? Anytime?

Nope. So once again let me heap my never-ending contempt on Europe for its diplomatic “efforts.” Freud could have had more fun with these retentive tendencies than with his children withholding the “gift.” Both are of about equal value and appeal.

Here by the way is a review. I had forgotten that strangely one of the lead characters in said movie was named “Fred.” Oh well…

By Doug Cummings

Arizona Daily Wildcat

It’s funny how even the most egotistical and aversive people can sometimes become companions. The consistency of their behavior can produce a bond formed through the continual effort of toleration.

Whit Stillman’s (Metropolitan) new serio-comic movie, Barcelona, is about such a relationship and the film derives irony from the fact that the two most verbally opposed characters in the movie find themselves continually together in unspoken companionship. Barcelona is set in the early '80s, and the buffeting characters are two estranged cousins named Ted and Fred (Taylor Nichols and Chris Eigeman).

Ted is a devoted sales agent for a Chicago firm working in Barcelona. One rainy night, Fred appears on his doorstep needing a place to stay. Ted reluctantly acquiesces and Fred moves in. Fred, an arrogant and abrasive individual, has been stationed in Barcelona as an “advance man” for the U.S. Navy, but the time is ripe with antagonism toward NATO and American political influence.

The movie follows Ted and Fred as they become entangled in the politics of their jobs and the complex relationships they develop between two Barcelonan women. Most of the movie’s humor derives from Ted and Fred’s verbal bantering and their bewildering cultural evaluations.

A relationship from Ted’s recent past causes him to question his morality and self-worth. Fred becomes enraged when he discovers the anti-American sentiment rampant in the city and proceeds to wear his Navy uniform to discos and nightclubs, flaunting his position. Eventually, the cultural misunderstandings inherent in both their relationships and the society around them culminate in an act of violence.

Barcelona is written and directed by Whit Stillman. He is a visually simplistic storyteller whose style is reminiscent of Jim Jarmusch. His stoical camera rarely moves and simply records ordinary people who sit around at social gatherings and deliberate about their society.

Stillman uses selective editing to create associations and drama. One effective scene involves Ted walking out of a room to meet an unidentified woman. The scene is broken up into four separate shots: one of Ted leaving his room, two romantic shots of his ex-girlfriend that were seen earlier in the movie and a shot of him meeting a different girl. The girlfriend’s unexpected imagery connects the audience with Ted’s hopes and expectations (and subsequent disappointment) without resorting to expository dialogue. Stillman assembles the whole movie efficiently and concisely.

Barcelona is a restrained movie that deemphasizes action and melodrama and brings into play the infuriating and often humorous aspects of relating to difficult people and a foreign culture. Its unique elements and simplistic style make it thought-provoking, witty, and thoroughly enjoyable

BTW, Rascal, as a former supporter of assassination to get rid of Saddam Hussein as opposed to war, do you support the assassination methods of the Israeli government to get rid of Hamas leaders?

[quote=“Au”]That was a false action from Israel. If Israel doesn’t respect the international laws, how it expects, that Palatine do it?

It was murder and will not improve the situation. It gives more arguments to Hamas.[/quote]

Are you certain, Au? The facts suggest otherwise. Look at this:

[quote]By showing that Israel’s tanks and fighter jets are just so much scrap metal in the face of the Palestinians’ superhuman determination, they aim to disarm Israel itself.

How does one respond to such a logic? It helps not to be fooled by it. Again, allow me to make the trite observation that Palestinians love their children too. [color=red][b]To date, there has not been a single instance in which a Hamas leader sent one of his own sons or daughters on a suicide mission.

Indeed, when one looks closely at just who the suicide bombers are (or were), often they turn out to be society’s outcasts[/b][/color]. Take Reem Salah al-Rahashi, a mother of two, who in January murdered four Israeli soldiers at the Erez checkpoint on the Gaza-Israel border. In a prerecorded video, Rahashi said becoming a shaheed was her lifelong dream. Later it emerged she’d been caught in an extramarital affair, and that her husband and lover had arranged her “martyrdom operation” as an honorable way to settle the matter. [color=red]It is with such people, not with themselves, that Palestinian leaders attempt to demonstrate their own fearlessness[/color].

[color=red]In the early months of the intifada, this macho pretense was sustained by the Israeli government’s tacit decision not to target terrorist ringleaders, for fear such attacks would inspire massive retaliation[/color]. Yassin and his closest associates considered themselves immune from Israeli reprisals and operated in the open. [color=red][b]What followed was the bloodiest terrorist onslaught in Israeli history, climaxing in a massacre at Netanya in March 2002. After that, Israel invaded the West Bank and began to target terrorist leaders more aggressively.

The results, in terms of lives saved, were dramatic. In 2003, the number of Israeli terrorist fatalities declined by more than 50% from the previous year, to 213 from 451. The overall number of attacks also declined, to 3,823 in 2003 from 5,301 in 2002, a drop of 30%. In the spring of 2003, Israel stepped up its campaign of targeted assassinations, including a failed attempt on Yassin’s deputy, Abdel Aziz Rantisi. Wise heads said Israel had done nothing except incite the Palestinians to greater violence. Instead, Hamas and other Islamic terrorist groups agreed unilaterally to a cease-fire.

In this context, it bears notice that between 2002 and 2003 the number of Palestinian fatalities also declined significantly, from 1,000 to about 700[/b][/color]. The reason here is obvious: As the leaders of Palestinian terror groups were picked off and their operations were disrupted, they were unable to carry out the kind of frequent, large-scale attacks that had provoked Israel’s large-scale reprisals. Terrorism is a top-down business, not vice versa. Targeted assassinations not only got rid of the most guilty but diminished the risk of open combat between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian foot soldiers. … =110004855

Instilling the ringleaders with a healthy fear of Allah indeed does seem to be of good use and effect.


please point out the specific law you’re refering to. :slight_smile:


so which authority enforces this “law”? what’s the punnishment for breaking this “law”? and how many times has spain broken this “law” in the last 50 years?

there is no such thing as international law. there are internationally accepted norms of behaviour, but there is no body which has the authority to make or enforce international law.

here’s another hopeless, unenforcable “international law” for you: