some folks in this community hold that taiwan is essentially part of the united states. such has been put there time and again. the only argument against such is emotional.
if taiwan is under the dominion/protection/aegis of the US as legally binding international documents prove, why haven’t taiwanese raised a legal ruckus in the US to acquire US passports and/or citizenship/green cards?
** Definition of alien **
Commonly, in the view of most people in the United States, we assume that by definition a
After the PRC invades I’m sure the USA will allow ROC citizens to qualify for political refugee status in the USA.
Unless ROC becomes a colony of the USA, like Puerto Rico or Guam, I don’t see how the USA would justify handing out US passports to ROC citizens without going to war with PRC or ROC as a prerequisite.
colony? no. legal protectorate? yes. taiwan was legally put into the US’s lap via int’l treaty. as you know, article 6, clause 2 of the US constitution reads"…and all treaties made… under the authority of the united states, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby…"
seems to me a slam dunk. taiwan is a protectorate of the US via int’l treaty. residents of insular areas of the US (guam, american samoa, indian reservations) have varying degrees of autonomy (indian reservations are soverign nations within the US) and have US citizenship/passports.
if i was a taiwaner, making an argument for such has nothing but upside.
Ignoring for a moment the absurd idea that the ROC on Taiwan is somehow a protectorate or part of the USA, I’ll remind you that Puerto Rico and Guam are not and never have been “colonies” of the United States. There have been no waves of US immigrants flowing to PR or Guam to colonize them. On the contrary, more Puerto Ricans live in NY than those living in San Juan. Puerto Ricans and Guamians (I have no idead what the latter should actually be called) are US Citizens, but they pay no tax to the federal government. Their relationship with the US is hardly one that could be described with the pejorative term “colony.”
[quote=“ac-crackhead”] After the PRC invades I’m sure the USA will allow ROC citizens to qualify for political refugee status in the USA.
[/quote]
I’m not sure what world you live in (perhaps you’re too busy reading propaganda to actually see reality), but despite their government throwing money at expensive hardware, PLAF pilots still can’t find their own assholes in a dark room without a flashlight. ROC citizens qualify for refugee status in the US? Should the PRC be dumb enough to lift a finger against Taiwan unprovoked, the likely scenario is that PRC citizens will be begging to immigrate to nice countries like North Korea, Vietnam, Myanmar and Mongolia after the USAF and USN have flattened the mainland’s industrial base. If you get caugth in the US when this happens and you’re lucky, they’ll give you a nice bunk at Guantanomo Bay. Enjoy!
i didn’t write “the ROC on taiwan” is a US protectorate but rather “taiwan.”
Quite a vivid imagination you have there 
skeptic yank,
You convinced me. I can make a killing if I can convince the Department of Homeland security to hand out USA passport to ROC citizen. Dr. Sun would turn in his grave if this the what final destination of Chinese Self Determination became.
Jive Turkey,
Your interpretation of PR and Guam are somewhat novel. New Yorician or not, they are a colony and they too are struggling to get their independence from USA. But the USA has imprisioned and killed known PR Independence leaders.
TI supporters should voice their support for the PR Independence brethrens instead of being hypocrites.
Not sure about Guam, but Puerto Rico has had several elections to choose between independence, statehood, or the status quo. Independence got less than 10 percent, if memory serves. Seems they like getting U.S. welfare handouts but no income tax.
Unincorporated Territory
Sorry, Crackhead, but it is your interpretation that is novel. Why don’t you just pull a dictionary down (if you own one) and look up “colony?” OED says a colony is a “country or area conquered for the purpose of settlement by people from the conquering country.” It’s a bit difficult to call a place a colony when there are no colonists.
I won’t deny that a minority of Puerto Ricans might like to be independent, but the majority are kept in favour of union with the US by things like liberty, great progress in the rule of law and lots of economic aid. A far cry from China, where unity is enforced by the threat or use of brute force. I guess you’ve never been to Puerto Rico. Compared to other Carribean nations that were at the same stage of development one hundred years ago, Puerto Rico is a paradise. Questions of cultural imperialism aside, only the nuttiest of PR independence activist would try to tell you that PR would have been better off if it had never been a territory of the US.
Nowhere near as vivid as Crackhead’s.
Re: colony
As per the insular cases of the US Supreme Court, the preferred terminology is “unincorporated territory,” also known as “insular area.”
Dr. Sun is revered yet in china as well as taiwan. it could be argued that the “one china principle” is an offshoot of his teachings. both the ccp and kmt see his as the father of modern china.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]skeptic yank,
You convinced me. I can make a killing if I can convince the Department of Homeland security to hand out USA passport to ROC citizen. Dr. Sun would turn in his grave if this the what final destination of Chinese Self Determination became.
Jive Turkey,
Your interpretation of PR and Guam are somewhat novel. New Yorician or not, they are a colony and they too are struggling to get their independence from USA. But the USA has imprisioned and killed known PR Independence leaders.
TI supporters should voice their support for the PR Independence brethrens instead of being hypocrites.[/quote]
I think PR and Guam are commonwealths. PR is not struggling for independence–they voted against it. Voted!!! Sure PR independence leaders get imprisoned–when they kill people and blow things up. Seems reasonable to me.
I doubt it - he’d probably be first in line for a US passport. He was educated in Hawaii and (then British) Hong Kong, and spent most of his life outside China. His vision of ‘Self Determination’ seems to have been “live in America and Europe until you can overthrow the existing Chinese government”. As such, he’d probably be applauding ROC citizens taking on US citizenship wouldn’t he?
[quote=“ac_dropout”]After the PRC invades I’m sure the USA will allow ROC citizens to qualify for political refugee status in the USA.
Unless ROC becomes a colony of the USA, like Puerto Rico or Guam, I don’t see how the USA would justify handing out US passports to ROC citizens without going to war with PRC or ROC as a prerequisite.[/quote]
Don’t get your hopes up for an invasion lest the Taiwan military send some missles to blow the shit out of your beloved Communist homeland. One accurate Taiwan defensive missle could do a lot of damage to Pudong and Hong Kong. Better spread the word there in the PRC AC so that all of the Westerners know this and start leave the PRC along with all of the Taiwan factory owners too. Oh I forgot, the Taiwan factory owners are already looking for locations in Vietnam.
Flicka,
Yes they voted for it after the USA imprisioned and killed all the PR independence leaders. That was a really great motiviator for PR individuals to go against the USA federal government.
david,
Nope got my USA passport a long time ago. It just with the change in immigrations laws by dept homeland security it is very difficult for foreigners to secure permenant residence in the USA. It has been argued that this could be the turning point in the USA. The best and the brightest will not be coming here anymore.
I’m just trying to do what’s best for the USA while enriching myself along the way.
skeptic yank,
Yes I agree.
Jive Turkey,
More like it is public knowledge in PR that all individual with PR independence goal will be dealt with harshly by the USA federal government and will not be tolerated even if it means lost of life.
Democracy and freedom of speech can be used to supress anyone. I would like to see the Patroit Act in action the next time a PR citizens decides to push for independence again.
If you are agianst PR independence, you are also against Taiwan Independence.
Puerto Rico and Taiwan have no parallels. Puerto Rico is part of the USA. Taiwan is in no way whatsoever a Part of China. Taiwan pays no taxes to China, Taiwan has its own military, votes for its own leaders. PRC Chinese Communist Party leaders cannot even visit Taiwan without the permission of the democratic government of Taiwan and a valid PRC passport. No can the PRC military even get halfway across the strait without being destroyed by Taiwan’s defense forces. Taiwan is in no part ruled by the PRC or even loosely associated with the PRC. Things are much different with Puerto Rico.
Finally I have to point out that Taiwan is already independent you Pro-Unfication freak! If you like the Communist PRC so much move there and leave the rest of us alone, or better yet, go there and liberate your people from Communist rule!
taiwan, via international treaty, is under the US.
puerto rico, via international treaty, is under the US.
puerto ricans have US passports.
why don’t taiwaners?
[quote=“skeptic yank”]taiwan, via international treaty, is under the US.
puerto rico, via international treaty, is under the US.
puerto ricans have US passports.
why don’t taiwaners?[/quote]
I wish Taiwan had US passports. Would be great for my wife’s family and friends as they would be protected from Communist China and their allies in Taiwan the Pro-Communist China KMT and PFP. Would also insure that business here was stable. Wish the US military would move back here too.