US Presidential Election 2004

Cold_Front · November 18, 2003, 3:54am

[quote=“tigerman”]Here is a good example of the absolute hysteria that grips some of the anti-Bush crowd:

[quote]Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, launched a stinging attack on President George Bush last night, denouncing him as the “greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen”.

Mr Livingstone recalled a visit at Easter to California, where he was denounced for an attack he had made on what he called “the most corrupt and racist American administration in over 80 years”.

The mayor said: “Some US journalist came up to me and said: ‘How can you say this about President Bush?’ Well, I think what I said then was quite mild. I actually think that Bush is the greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen. The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction.”

news.independent.co.UK/UK/politi … ory=464783[/quote]

Apparently the mayor has never heard of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot or even Saddam Hussein.

And I wonder if these folks ever even think about what they spout off about… I mean, how exactly is the current Bush administration “racist” at all, let alone the most racist in 80 years?

Do these people take themselves seriously?[/quote]

Ken would feel right at home with some here on Forumosa. He has the right balance.

You can just hear the crowd: “Bush is worse than Hitler! He’s worse than Mao! He eats black babies for breakfast!”

skeptic_yank · November 18, 2003, 7:28am

why is it that a country with 280 million citizens cannot come up with even two viable candidates for president?

ever since i have come of age, the choice has ALWAYS sucked: bush, mondale, dole, clinton, gore, W. is such the best that can be done? middle-of-the-road-kill all. at this pace gephardt is a contender yet.

ashcroft and gephardt: the reasons for fleeing missouri return magnified.

Closet_Queen · November 18, 2003, 7:57am

[quote=“tigerman”]Contrast the mayor’s views with those of many other people in the UK:

[quote]A majority of Labour voters welcome President George Bush’s state visit to Britain which starts today, according to November’s Guardian/ICM opinion poll.

Closet_Queen · November 20, 2003, 1:48pm

Tigerman · November 20, 2003, 2:51pm

Tigerman · November 20, 2003, 2:52pm

Closet_Queen · November 20, 2003, 5:53pm

Tigerman · November 21, 2003, 2:02am

New Florida Voting Machines for 2004:

Tigerman · November 21, 2003, 2:49am

Conservaphobia: noun. The fear of the American conservative political movement; often based on unfounded stereotypes and ridiculous distortions

Are [color=red]YOU[/color] Conservaphobic???

Do you refer to liberal Catholics, Protestants and Jews as “people of faith” but conservative Catholics, Protestants and Jews as the “religious right” or “radical religious right”?
Do you think all white Republicans are racists and all black Republicans are sellouts?
Are you a champion of first amendment rights except in public school classrooms and in front of abortion clinics?
Are you glad you’re not a Republican because after all, they want to starve school children and senior citizens?
Do you actually think that “liberal” and “progressive” are synonymous?
Do you believe that a government donation to the poor is somehow more effective than yours would be?
Do you only listen to and respect the views of “open-minded” people who think like you do?
Do you blame society’s problems on “religious fanatics” and “corporate greed”, never on the irresponsible behavior of individuals?

If you answered “yes” to any four of the above, you are most likely conservaphobic.

Closet_Queen · November 21, 2003, 3:05am

Huang_Guang_Chen · November 21, 2003, 3:14am

But hang on, these bastards aren’t conservatives, they’re radical idealogues.

HG

Alien · November 21, 2003, 3:26am

Alien · November 21, 2003, 1:30pm

[quote]After months of sustained attacks against President Bush in Democratic primary debates and commercials, the Republican Party is responding this week with its first advertisement of the presidential race, portraying Mr. Bush as fighting terrorism while his potential challengers try to undermine him with their sniping.

The new commercial gives the first hint of the themes Mr. Bush’s campaign is likely to press in its early days. It shows Mr. Bush, during the last State of the Union address, warning of continued threats to the nation: “Our war against terror is a contest of will, in which perseverance is power,” he says after the screen flashes the words, “Some are now attacking the president for attacking the terrorists.”[/quote]
God, I wish we could see them here…

nytimes.com/2003/11/21/polit … PU.html?hp

Alien · November 22, 2003, 2:44pm

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar … Nov21.html

[quote]2 Bills Would Benefit Top Bush Fundraisers
Executives’ Companies Could Get Billions

More than three dozen of President Bush’s major fundraisers are affiliated with companies that stand to benefit from the passage of two central pieces of the administration’s legislative agenda: the energy and Medicare bills.
The energy bill provides billions of dollars in benefits to companies run by at least 22 executives and their spouses who have qualified as either “Pioneers” or “Rangers,” as well as to the clients of at least 15 lobbyists and their spouses who have achieved similar status as fundraisers. At least 24 Rangers and Pioneers could benefit from the Medicare bill as executives of companies or lobbyists working for them, including eight who have clients affected by both bills. [/quote]

Tigerman · November 23, 2003, 12:59pm

[quote]TIMECNN POLL:

[color=red]
Most Registered Voters Would Choose Bush
[/color]

Fri Nov 21 2003 19:44:24 ET

If the 2004 Presidential election was held today, registered voters surveyed for TIME/CNN would choose President George W. Bush over any of the declared Democratic candidates.

drudgereport.com/flash.htm[/quote]

Tigerman · November 26, 2003, 1:45am

U.S. economic growth revised up

[color=red]GDP grew at a blistering 8.2 percent pace in the third quarter, faster than originally thought.[/color]

November 25, 2003: 6:50 PM EST

[quote=“CNN/Money”]The U.S. economy grew in the third quarter at an even faster pace than originally reported, the government said Tuesday.

Gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of economic activity, grew at an 8.2 percent annual rate, the fastest pace since the first quarter of 1984, the Commerce Department reported.

money.cnn.com/2003/11/25/news/ec … /index.htm[/quote]

W might not even need to run any campaign ads!

Tigerman · November 26, 2003, 1:56am

[color=red]Poll: Bush way ahead in Florida[/color]

[quote=“Tallahassee Democrat”]Florida voters trust President Bush more than any of his Democratic rivals to run the war in Iraq and restore the economy, a poll released Monday indicated.

The Mason-Dixon Florida Poll said Bush’s overall approval rating has held steady - although his disapproval numbers have risen since last summer. But in head-to-head matchups with his major Democratic challengers, Bush led by 20 points or more. Tue, Nov. 25, 2003

tallahassee.com/mld/democrat … 343228.htm[/quote]

fred_smith · November 26, 2003, 2:22am

Hold on Alien:

Nice to see that you are so into comics but for this clear-eyed conservative realist, from the very beginning, I have been talking about a minimum two-year timeline before we would know how things would go in Iraq. Go back and reread ANY thread and see how many times I mentioned OVER AND OVER again that two years, we’ll see in two years, we’ll know in two years. So if I am singing the two-year mantra over and over again, and I have been reading a lot of conservative newspapers and periodicals, maybe that is where I got the timeline. I am sorry that you and Closet Queen are only capable of reading comics but for those of us who take these issues seriously and are capable of spending more than three minutes on an article, we knew that this was not going to be an in and out operation.

Now when I say two years that was only for how things were going to tip. Most conservative articles and commentators were comparing our involvement in Iraq to that in Germany, Japan and South Korea. Surely you have read this comparison before? Now US troops are still there 50 years after those wars and I believe that if things “tip” the right direction, that is a realistic expectation for Iraq. Though naturally, we all hope that this will be a force of 30K and not 130K. I have ever expectation that if things continue to go as they are that this will occur in TWO YEARS.

Jack_Burton · November 26, 2003, 2:38am

Mr. Smith,

Ok, we can’t expect instant gratification (in a society that does). I agree. Democracy is not going to bloom fully and instantly after so many years of dictatorship in a region where democracy is foreign.

But not everything is perfect, and some might arguing that the administration, etc is doing its share of bungling in Iraq, whether not reaching out enough to help Iraqis (and yes, again, i still hear reports of people without water, electricity), not being efficient or coordinated enough(State Dept working at cross-purposes with Armed Forces etc)

So my question to you is… how can these next two years be improved, the iraqification streamlined and policies better handle so that Iraq becomes self-governing responsibly quicker, less soldiers lose their lives, and costs are reduced? If you were the goto guy in Iraq for the US forces, what changes/improvements would you make? put your money where your mouth is at kinda thing? or do you believe that everything is ok the way it is?

fred_smith · November 26, 2003, 2:55am

Why Mr. McCormick:

Thanks so much for asking. Yes, I have had more than a few cups of coffee this morning as you well know and so here ya go…

I would argue that things are actually as good as they can be right now. WHAT?! I would argue that the US occupation of Iraq is proceeding optimally.

I know we live in a world of instant gratification and the only news that gets reported is bad, but come on. In the history of warfare and occupation if you can show me a case where fewer troops have died than with the US invasion and nine-month occupation of Iraq, then please do so.

To date, since May 1, 185 troops have been killed by hostile fire. This ain’t great but come on this is a war and occupation we are talking about here. This is still fewer than the numbers that died in the bombing of barracks in Beirut. That averages to around 27 or so a month in a country of 25 million people filled with lots of baddies.

I believe the administration knows what it is doing and we should all stop second guessing it. The results will not be perfect in Iraq, there sure as hell are not in Washington so how can we expect better in Baghdad. Iraq will not become a democracy or market economy overnight. We are looking at 30 years if things go well and then we may have a democracy like that in Taiwan (which ain’t so perfect either). But hey. Them’s the breaks.

The Iraqification of security and management is proceeding far faster than in Germany and Japan (some would argue too fast) but hey let’s give the decision making but also the responsibilities to the Iraqis and then get to our ultimate goal in two years which is a force of 25K to 35K in Iraq to maintain the security balance while leaving the day to day policing and running of the country to them. I think there is a very good (but not 100 percent) chance that this will happen.

For all the security problems in Iraq, it should be pointed out that similar bombings have occurred in Yemen, Morocco, Tunisia, Israel, Saudi Arabia, now Turkey, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, the USA, Russia etc. etc. so let’s remember that this is never going to go away completely. We just need to keep the lid from blowing off. The Iraqis like everyone else around the world, however, are going to have to suffer from terrorism just like Americans, Saudis and Israelis. The good point is that as in Afghanistan (despite all the troubles there) we have removed yet another chip from the terrorist pot. The bombings in Saudi Arabia have swung the duplicitous Saudis a bit more our way, we could do more about taking Syria out of the equation but all these things take time. The point is we are winning and when we do, there will be no losers. All will benefit, including the 99 percent of the Arab and Muslim world that is concerned with providing a decent life for their families and have a basic modicum of human rights.

Can anyone argue that Germany is worse off without the Nazis, Japan without the militarists and Russia and China without the hardline communists. The Arab and Muslim world will too be better off without the Islamofacists.