well, I’m going to shock some people here but I’m also against national ID cards. If I’ve got to carry “papers”, I might as well live in the old USSR, the PRC or Taiwan. I hate governments…all governments. I just happen to think the US is the best of a bad lot. But I see no reason to give greedy politicians any more power than they already have. ID cards would not have stopped 911. The people who did it had valid passports and visas. All they will do make people think they are more secure and give document forgers a new source of income. If we [i]really[/i] want to fight terrorism in the US, the first thing we need to do is stop issuing visas to every Abdul, Hassan and Mohammed who shows up at the visa office in Jeddah (or Frankfurt). No one has a right to enter the US (or any other country, for that matter). It’s a privilege. I don’t allow anyone off the street to enter my house and sure as hell don’t see why they should be allowed into my country.
As far as it being inconvenient for you not to have some sort of national ID when outside the US. Well, no one forced to to leave. Hell, I think it’s inconvenient not to be able to buy Maurice Bessinger’s Piggy Park Bar-B-Que Sauce in Taiwan. And I [i]love[/i] Piggy Park Bar-B-Que Sauce!
[quote=“tomtom taiwan”][quote=“Vannyel”]
You might think that driver’s licenses are inefficient and outdated but I haven’t ever had any trouble using one for identification.
[/quote]
I have had countless problems. Your driver’s licence is useless as an ID card outside of the US. However, most places I have been recognize national identity cards. Since state licences are not national, you can’t use them as ID in foreign banks, offices, etc. Of course, to Americans who don’t travel and don’t live abroad, it is no big deal. For those of us who do, it can be. Sometimes your passport just is not handy at the moment…it always helps to have a back-up.[/quote]
You had countless problems using a state-issued driver’s license within the borders of the United States???
Well as a foreigner traveling in a foreign country you are required to carry your passport whether it is handy or not. Naturally, in Taiwan, once you have your ARC you can leave your passport at home.
So you are saying you have a national ID card for some other country (since you seem to know they are recognized – btw, my roommate’s Taiwan national ID wasn’t recognized in the U.S. as valid ID. He needed his passport until he got his driver’s license)??
[quote=“tomtom taiwan”][quote=“Vannyel”]
You might think that driver’s licenses are inefficient and outdated but I haven’t ever had any trouble using one for identification.
[/quote]
I have had countless problems. Your driver’s licence is useless as an ID card outside of the US. However, most places I have been recognize national identity cards. Since state licences are not national, you can’t use them as ID in foreign banks, offices, etc. Of course, to Americans who don’t travel and don’t live abroad, it is no big deal. For those of us who do, it can be. Sometimes your passport just is not handy at the moment…it always helps to have a back-up.[/quote]
Well, as an American who travels and lives abroad, I’d be curious to know what are the “most places that recognize identity cards”? Why on earth would you not want to bring a passport in situations when you need to change money in a foreign country? How unhandy can it be – let’s see, I need to change money today, so I’ll drop my passport in my pocket. Many countries have clearly stated laws that require PASSPORTS when changing money.
Vannyel’s right–you can always get a state ID.
My Oregon driver’s license seemed to do the trick at the car rental place in Capetown–so much for it being useless.
why don’t you guys tell us why the current id system is better instead of just trash our arguments? comrade had arguments to back up his position. vannyel thinks we shouldn’t change the system, but never gives reasons why the current situation is any good. and flicka, as far as i can tell, has not attempted to present an argument for why state id’s are better than a national id.
So, would you be comfortable being finger printed on the way back to the USA.[/quote]
Doesn’t bother me. I’ve been fingerprinted by the US government a number of times. But I would really prefer we have better passports.
It is fair. And doesn’t bother me in the least. I’m not Australian and each country has to make its own rules and look out for its own security. If people don’t like it, they don’t have to go there.
For God’s sake. Every war the US has ever fought has necessitated changes in American society. Have you never read any American history? Up the the Second World War, you could walk up to the front door of the White House. Did we play into Japan’s hands by restricting movement on the White House lawn?
A political statement to bolster public confidence after an attack is not the same thing as a policy.
Because as far as I can tell, there’s nothing broken about the system right now. You can still get into bars with an out of state ID. You can still use it for ID when you get on the plane in a different state. Why bother with something new? I’ve got a driver’s license, I’ve got a passport, I’ve got a social security card, I’ve got a bank cards and credit cards, all I need is one other damn card.
Just keep sipping at the Kool-Aid and telling yourself over and over again until you “get it” that it’s not “suspending civil liberties” and “declaring martial law.”
Nosir.
It’s “suspending terror coddling” and “issuing freedom guidelines” and don’t you forget it.
By the way, would you like some freedom fries with your brave new world?
[quote=“spook”]Just keep sipping at the Kool-Aid and telling yourself over and over again until you “get it” that it’s not “suspending civil liberties” and “declaring martial law.”
Nosir.
It’s “suspending terror coddling” and “issuing freedom guidelines” and don’t you forget it.
By the way, would you like some freedom fries with your brave new world?[/quote]
Gee spook, if it bothers you [i]so[/i] much, why do you stay here in Taiwan? Here you are required by law to carry your ARC or passport. At your home here you’ve got a household registry and every year or so you have to give the government a shit sample. And you can’t even vote to complain about it.
Because as far as I can tell, there’s nothing broken about the system right now. You can still get into bars with an out of state ID. You can still use it for ID when you get on the plane in a different state. Why bother with something new? I’ve got a driver’s license, I’ve got a passport, I’ve got a social security card, I’ve got a bank cards and credit cards, all I need is one other damn card.[/quote]
the current situation is that the us DOES have a national id card. there are just 100+ different versions of it(most of them the vast majority of americans would not even recognize) and the agency in charge of these ids is the department of motor vehicles(more accurately, it is the 50+ different departments of motor vehicles which are in charge of the ids). it might “work fine”, but it’s a stupid way to implement a national id.
it’s weird that the liberals on here are so reactionary. i thought progressive meant “new and better”, not “resist change!”. i mean i expect comrade to resist the change because he’s a cranky old fart…
[quote=“Comrade Stalin”]
Gee spook, if it bothers you [i]so[/i] much, why do you stay here in Taiwan? Here you are required by law to carry your ARC or passport. At your home here you’ve got a household registry and every year or so you have to give the government a shit sample. And you can’t even vote to complain about it.[/quote]
It’s the trend line I’m worried about. It’s all but inevitable that ten years from now some bright light in Neo America is going to wake up one day and realize:
"Hey, if it’s such a bright idea putting some of them away forever because of what they might do, why not start putting some of us away forever too because of what we might do.
Yeah, that’s the ticket. Why didn’t we think of that earlier?"
It’s called a slippery slope and life in the United States is more and more resembling that of a Banana Peel Republic.
Some posts containing direct insults and flames haven been split of and were moved to the Flame forum.
Please refrain from such behaviour - and this applies to all parties involved.
the current situation is that the us DOES have a national id card. there are just 100+ different versions of it(most of them the vast majority of Americans would not even recognize) and the agency in charge of these ids is the department of motor vehicles(more accurately, it is the 50+ different departments of motor vehicles which are in charge of the ids). it might “work fine”, but it’s a stupid way to implement a national id.
it’s weird that the liberals on here are so reactionary. I thought progressive meant “new and better”, not “resist change!”. I mean i expect comrade to resist the change because he’s a cranky old fart… [/quote]
What do we use our “national ID” (DL) for? Usually to cash checks or get into bars or buy cigarettes. Why would we need to waste resources on pumping out new national ID card? Certainly you know better to bring a passport when travelling into another country.
Where do you get this “its weird how liberals” crap? You don’t even know me.
I think I said, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it…it has been working fine for decades and there has been absolutely no logical argument presented for spending the millions of dollars that would be required to create a national ID card system. I think these are damn good reasons not to change it.
As flicka said, it would be redundant to have a national ID card, we already have driver’s licenses.
Since when was issuing driver’s licenses or state IDs an attempt to implement a national ID? It was never meant to be.
I hate governments…all governments. I just happen to think the US is the best of a bad lot. But I see no reason to give greedy politicians any more power than they already have. ID cards would not have stopped 911. The people who did it had valid passports and visas. All they will do make people think they are more secure and give document forgers a new source of income. If we [i]really[/i] want to fight terrorism in the US, the first thing we need to do is stop issuing visas to every Abdul, Hassan and Mohammed who shows up at the visa office in Jeddah (or Frankfurt). No one has a right to enter the US (or any other country, for that matter). It’s a privilege. I don’t allow anyone off the street to enter my house and sure as hell don’t see why they should be allowed into my country.
