Here’s the problem – we English-speakers disagree with the last part. In our understanding of the world, there is no continent called America, but rather a separate North America and South America. Compare “North America is a subcontinent on the continent of America” (Spanish) vs. “North America is a continent” (English). You are simply refusing to accept that we have a different world view from you. To us, “America” can only refer to the USA because there is no other geographic or political entity called America. In fact, you will find that Spanish-English dictionaries, even ones made in Spain, overwhelmingly say the English word for “estadounidense” is “American.”
So… In sum… América es un continente, but America is a country. I’m definitely an American, and I don’t think that will be changing anytime in the near future.
Not much more than other places, but as a country, they’re more egocentric than average. Am I crazy for pointing it out, and saying that it’s related to the fact that they use the whole continent’s name (yeah, two, whatever) for referring their country, which is just a small chunk of it?
No, I’m not denying it. I’m actually pointing it out as a problem and a misconception. It does not matter how many “Americas” you can count. That doesn’t affect at all the logic I’m using.
But this conversation is totally fruitless. You perhaps think that I’m having this fight everytime somebody misuses the term “American”, but I’m not. You might think that I never call “American” the USA citizen, but I actually do (just for being pragmatic). But I’m afriad that you guys will never look at this from the non-USA point of view (and I know that many other countries follow USA in the use of this word, but again, they are just following a use, it’s an echo of an ethnocentric misconception.
Go back and read what I wrote because clearly you didn’t the first time. I’ve told you – when I speak Spanish, I will follow the Spanish-language rules. Is that not looking at it form the non-USA point of view? I would counter that you will never look at it from the non-Spanish-speaking point of view.
Go back and read what I wrote because clearly you didn’t the first time. I’ve told you – when I speak Spanish, I will follow the Spanish-language rules. Is that not looking at it form the non-USA point of view? I would counter that you will never look at it from the non-Spanish-speaking point of view.[/quote]
No, what you do is different from analyzing the correctness of the term. What you do is to use Spanish. But as I said, this goes beyond language, this is about culture and perception. To use “estadounidense” in Spanish doesn’t mean that you thought about the topic thoroughly.
I give up. Obviously either I can’t express myself clearly enough or you are blocked by your culture so you can’t understand what I say.
Good Lord. It still refers to and comes from the name of the fuckin’ continent(s). How many times have I said that the number of continents with that name is totally irrelevant? It’s the fuckin’ same than saying that you are Korean because you are from South Korea and that the people from South Korea are something different from Koreans. The critic I’m doing stands perfectly logic no matter if you have one, two three, twenty “Americas”. Even more, your horrible use of the term only becomes worse considering what you are saying.
For Christ sake, you are either trolling me or not very good at logic (which could be).
I drop myself from this discussion.
AB, if you keep misbehaving I’m going to have to tell your mother to cut off your internet connection, and then you are not going to like it.
Good Lord. It still refers to and comes from the name of the fuckin’ continent(s). How many times have I said that the number of continents with that name is totally irrelevant? It’s the fuckin’ same than saying that you are Korean because you are from South Korea and that the people from South Korea are something different from Koreans. The critic I’m doing stands perfectly logic no matter if you have one, two three, twenty “Americas”. Even more, your horrible use of the term only becomes worse considering what you are saying.
.[/quote]
The history of the term goes back a long way. Before the United States ever was a figment of anyone’s imagination, European settlers were calling themselves “Americans” to differentiate themselves, their manners of thought and lifestyles from those back in the home countries. Any relation this would have to anyone else on either continent never could have occurred to anyone of course. It’s become well established over many many years and it’s not going to change. You can’t change what people call themselves so easily. Is it the most geographically or culturally accurate term today? No, but so what? No one is trying to imply any kind of hegemony because of it that I ever heard, in a country and context that the term might have been invented for. Fight this battle if you like, but it won’t be a winning one.
Considering nobody on this forum seems to agree with your arguments, I guess it’s all native English speakers who are not very good at logic, no?
The reason I care so much about this topic is that identity is a complicated issue, and it’s my identity that you are trying to redefine. You are imposing your worldview on me in a way that would fundamentally change the way that I think of myself and refer to myself, and I am obviously not too happy about that. Try this: go up to a person from Penghu and say “you should call yourself Chinese because you’re from the Republic of China. It doesn’t make sense to say you’re from Taiwan.” See how they react.
As a European, let me ask you this as a side discussion. A lot of people say “Europe” but mean the EU. Bloomberg: “Europe’s Economy Holds Up as Greek Crisis Dents Confidence” Does this upset Switzerland, Norway, and the Baltic states? Does the term include non-euro EU members like the UK and Czech Republic? I’m actually really curious because I’ve never heard anything one way or the other.
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]
The reason I care so much about this topic is that identity is a complicated issue, and it’s my identity that you are trying to redefine. You are imposing your worldview on me in a way that would fundamentally change the way that I think of myself and refer to myself, and I am obviously not too happy about that. Try this: go up to a person from Penghu and say “you should call yourself Chinese because you’re from the Republic of China. It doesn’t make sense to say you’re from Taiwan.” See how they react.
As a European, let me ask you this as a side discussion. A lot of people say “Europe” but mean the EU. Bloomberg: “Europe’s Economy Holds Up as Greek Crisis Dents Confidence” Does this upset Switzerland, Norway, and the Baltic states? Does the term include non-euro EU members like the UK and Czech Republic? I’m actually really curious because I’ve never heard anything one way or the other.[/quote]
All three Baltic States are in both the EU and the Euro zone.
[quote]OK. But it’s still a very bad name to chose, specially for an international audience. You have to agree that it’s at least funny to tell Mexicans, Canadians, Latinamerican, Brazilians, etc… that YOU are the Americans and the others… well, they are not.
[/quote]
Just call them according to their nationality. It’s not like the Americas is often brought up in everyday speech as a continent.
That happens to Asians as well. In theory, from Japan to Israel, everyone is Asian, but when people say “Asia”, they usually refer to East Asia, plus Southeast Asia and Indian subcontinent at most. The Middle East, while geographically is part of Asia, is usually singled out. Then there’s always Russia, which just feels completely out of place(cause it’s Europe).
[quote=“Incubus”]Studio Classroom is teaching the difference between America and the United States. Seems like an unbiased presentation.
sc.studioclassroom.com/sc_icloud.php#[/quote]
This is great. There’s nothing to get upset about. In English the country is “United States of America” and the people are “American”, not ‘Unitedstatesian.’ A country like Mexico is similar: The country in Spanish is “Estados Unidos Mexicanos” and the people are “Mexicanos.”
BTW, Mexicans chose the term “estadounidense” to refer to an American, but they could easily be called “estadounidenses” themselves.
I definitely meant to type Balkan states. Don’t know what happened there.