Use of Excessive Force

In connection with my research for my newspaper columns and other human rights reporting, I would like to interview a local Taiwanese or foreigner who has been subjected to the “use of excessive force” in dealings with any government agency.

I assume that this would normally be in connection with beatings or other strong arm tactics. Incidents of this type are occasionally reported in the Taiwan press.

If you know of anyone, please contact me or post some brief details in this thread.

I have an old book of newspaper clippings from the mid to late 80s. There is a story of the police “questioning” a suspect by hanging him upside-down and pushing toothpicks into his testicles. The policemen were given a demerit. I can forward it to you at some point. I think there are actual names of the cops there too.
Or is that not exactly “excessive” by Taiwan standards… :sunglasses:

What’s excessive about that, Wolf? You’re not getting soft in your old age are you?

…oh, Sandman…a straight-line I had better just leave be… :laughing:

This has got me to thinking… At my last ARC health exam, it took the nurse 3 stabs to the arm to get some blood.

A few years ago I was visiting a friend who lived in one of the local hostels in Taipei. There was a young Canadian man there who had stolen a couple of motorcycles and parked them out front. The cops came with weapons drawn but no actual contact. The guy wasn’t so stupid after all and laid down on the ground when the cops had a firearm pointed at him.

Where can I obtain a listing of foreigners imprisoned in Taiwan, along with some of their basic data (name, sex, age, nationality, hometown, length of sentence, charges filed, etc.) ? ? ?

I would be especially interested in information on US citizens, since I think there might be issues of “civil rights violations” here, under the US State Department’s current policy directives. It appears that these matters are being ignored at present . . . . . .

Mr. Hartzell,

I have in front of me a copy of a letter that a gentleman was handing out on the street in Shi Da night market. It is addressed to the U.N. Commission on Human Rights’ Geneva office and it reads, in part:

“What the policemen did to me in Tu-cheng prison are as follows:
Firstly, they handcuffed me;
Secondly, they hung me up;
Thirdly, they spraid ammonia water on my face;
Fourthly, they beat me;
Fifthly, they put a log into my mouth;
In general, they violated my human right.”

The letter’s author holds a BA in Economics from TaiDa (it is attached to the letter).
Contact me if you want the author’s contact information.

That guy’s a nutter. I remember him from 4 years ago. Then the other day he chased me on his bicycle trying to get me to take his information again. He really seemed to have several screws loose.


You would be surprised how crazy people become after being subjected to long periods of torture . They say some forms schizophrenia may be a psychological defense mechanism.

Hartzell, don’t you think those days of the governement being allied with the gangsters is long gone. The only excessive force I have seen was when I witnessed them bulldoze someone’s illegally built dwellings, which I thought was just great!

If you are talking about the police. I personally think they do not use enough force. Haven’t you seen them being abused on the news by someone (spitting, cussing and fighting with them?) The cops here show amazing restraint and look like a bunch of wussies compared to cops in the USA who would have been kicking the guys ass already. :laughing: We are not talking about Myanmar, I honestly think the police in the USA violate more human rights than the wussies here in Taiwan.

By the way, why is it that the police have no power here in Taiwan? Does it have something to do with the past martial law times?

Maybe it has something to do with whether the TV cameras are directed at the police…

That is overly cynical and I challenge you to find recent instances of police brutality or use of excessive force in Taiwan that compares with well publicised monthly occurances in the USA.

There may be a lot of gravel truck driving Taiwan red necks out there, but most of the police force either doesn’t care, doesn’t have much power or are a bunch of wussies because they are nothing like police in the USA in terms of the force they use to subdue suspects.

How much force the cops apply here in Taiwan has a lot to do with a lot of factors. I think the problem has a couple of aspects;

  • there are no clear guidelines regarding the use of force,
  • the cops are often caught in a conflict of interest,
  • there is zero respect given to cops (whether that is because of history or the fact the cops do little to earn respect I will leave to others to decide)
  • plus the general problem Taiwanese have with their emotional control (both cops and the public), what I have seen happen with Taiwanese is they will just sit there sullenly accepting abuse (either real or imagined abuse) and then suddenly flip out and resort to physical violence. There are no shades of gray. {Please all Taiwan apologist and sycophants to the locals; do not fill my mailbox with pleas to not “speak harshly of the locals”. I quit this board for exactly that reason.}

*also I have noticed that the local cops often suffer from “short persons” disease when dealing with bigger foreigners

  • plus you have the racism factor if the “suspect” is not Chinese

So you add all those up to kind of explain how and why the local cops do what they do.

So that is my view ten years on.

I think you might need another 10 years to understand Taiwan Brian, you seem like a slow learner.

what part do I misunderstand?

Oh, thanks for not filling my mailbox; which are you: a Taiwan apologist, or local or a “suck up to the locals” type.

Oh, thanks on another count, you reminded me that internet chats forums are full of idiots, rude jerkoffs and people living in dream worlds. I guess cyberspace encourages that.

Oh by the way I have had the “blessed fortune” to be in intimate daily contact with Taiwanese since 1982 so I am pretty sure of what I am talking about. I am not saying I am never wrong, but I am saying I am in a pretty good position to speak intellegently on the matter.

drop dead,
Brian Kennedy

I guess you’ve obviously had your fair share of runs in with the cops. Whatever for, might I ask? :laughing:

Some cops are nice but some are worst than gangsters.

I still remember very clearly to this day what happened to me in 2000. I was videoing a celebration when the police started to break up the party downtown. Fire trucks went around the streets spraying everybody trying to disperse everyone. Some of the plain clothes police asked me to leave the area…I was leaving but was still videoing when I was asked again by another police(this one in uniform) so I stopped videoing and started to walk away. Just then another plain clothes police ran after me and started to push me around…I couldn’t touch him because he would consider it assault. I switched on the video camera holding it low so that no police would notice that everything that they were doing or not doing was being recorded. I was pushed against a parked car very hard…he then took his bat and took a swing at me. I jumped away from that swinging bat…didn’t want a broken leg!!!

I reminded him that he was a cop and couldn’t do that. He said that he was a gangster…bunch of Bull! There were at least ten uniformed police standing around and didn’t stop him. Until one uniformed cop saw the red recording light on…he shouted saying, “The camera’s recording!”

All the cops rushed into me trying to grab the camera…saying that they just wanted the tape. I refused holding on to the video camera with both of my hands.

Seeing that they couldn’t get the tape…they threw me into a police car and took me to the police station. On the way to and also at the police station they asked me if I was a Mainland Chinese spy(more intimidation tactics and BS questions). At the police station I asked for the Foreign Affairs Police but they didn’t call or give me the number to call. I sat in the police station watching them erase the tape. No evidence…so I didn’t file any complaint against them. Usually the tape cannot be erased, I heard that they cannot do that. And they didn’t tell me why I was held at the station and why I wasn’t allowed to have a Foreign Affairs Police explain to me about the situation.

I still see that plain clothes police once in a while on the road with his uniformed colleagues on duty. Without the baseball bat now!!!

Sorry about the double post.

Anyways I was in the police station for 2-3 hours. I was given back the erased tape and was given an excuse for not booking me.

Of course not all cops are like this. I have some great friends that are cops.

Don’t want to experience anything like that but I did experience almost getting shot. I’ll talk about it some other time. … /id20.html