Use of 有 for possessing/selling/having on one's person

Way off-topic, and in response to ironlady’s response to me & bob whinging about people not understanding us about… Oh… ten pages ago… (I went away for the weekend :discodance: )

I always thought ‘nimen zhebian you mei you erji?’ was fine? :astonished:

lemme think…

‘ni you erji ma’ or ‘ni you mei you erji’ is obviously wrong.

‘nimen you mei you mai erji’ or zhebian you mai erji ma’ is technically grammatically incorrect, but Taiwan guoyu and in common use.

‘zhebian mai bu mai erji’ or ‘nimen mai bu mai erji’ is probably the best phrase in perfect Chinese, but sounds very mainland-ish to me.

I’ve been saying ‘you mei you…’ when asking for things at shops and nobody’s ever picked me up on it before… which worried me a bit, until I realised that plenty of my TW friends say it too (along with ‘you … ma?’ ).

Is it a southern thing that doesn’t translate in TPE-guo (like boba) ? Anyone know?

And to add something to the conversation…

I’m one of those lazy-assed Uni students who doesn’t go to class. I really only pay attention to the classes where the teachers are strict and interested in our learning. In all other cases I have the very self-destructive attitude of ‘If the teacher doesn’t care, why should I?’

…doubly bad when the teacher THINKS they’re teaching.

It’s a carryover from Taiwanese, where 有 “wu” is used in that sense.

I’m glad you brought this up, it’s relatively interesting. The rest of the discussion has taken on a PPP format (protracted, polarized, pointless).

[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]Way off-topic, and in response to ironlady’s response to me & bob whinging about people not understanding us about… Oh… ten pages ago… (I went away for the weekend :discodance: )

I always thought ‘nimen zhebian you mei you erji?’ was fine? :astonished:[/quote]

You have to say mai. The shop assistant might have a pair sitting on his head but they’re not for sale. You don’t need the nimen though, and Mandarin doesn’t really have this generic use (equalling a shop or some institution) that we’re used to in English.

[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]
‘ni you erji ma’ or ‘ni you mei you erji’ is obviously wrong.[/quote]

It’s OK if you’re asking to borrow a pair though!

That’ll be “This piece movie all perform what?” :wink:

[quote=“smithsgj”]

[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]Way off-topic, and in response to ironlady’s response to me & bob whinging about people not understanding us about… Oh… ten pages ago… (I went away for the weekend :discodance: )

I always thought ‘nimen zhebian you mei you erji?’ was fine? :astonished:[/quote]

You have to say mai. The shop assistant might have a pair sitting on his head but they’re not for sale.[/quote]
Yeah… I made this mistake for the longest time when asking students if they had their transcripts. I couldn’t just ask them if they “had” them, as we would in English, when our meaning would be understood (unless you’re a character from a Monty Python skit). It often created confusion: yes they had them, but they didn’t have them with them! I found later that I had to explicitly ask them if they “brought” (帶) their transcripts.

The Chinese are in general not very explicit in their use of language, but in this case more explicitness was needed than even in English!

Yes, I know this is off topic!

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]

I’ve been saying ‘you mei you…’ when asking for things at shops and nobody’s ever picked me up on it before… which worried me a bit, until I realised that plenty of my TW friends say it too (along with ‘you … ma?’ ).

Is it a southern thing that doesn’t translate in TPE-guo (like boba) ? Anyone know?
[/quote]

It’s a carryover from Taiwanese, where 有 “wu” is used in that sense.[/quote]

Aha, so in Mandarin it’s wrong but OK in TWhua?

I knew the you + verb thing comes from Taiyu and so is technically wrong in Mandarin, though used in the spoken vernacular.

So the Taiyu would be … lin gamu (headphones) ? And that would be ok?

Chris - Yeah, it all makes sense when you say that! You do always ask if someone’s ‘brought’ something rather than ‘have’ something, or if they’ve ‘bought’ it rather than ‘got’.

[quote]I’m glad you brought this up, it’s relatively interesting. The rest of the discussion has taken on a PPP format (protracted, polarized, pointless).
[/quote]

Yeah, I wasn’t brave enough to comment on the rest so thought I’d just talk on what interested me :discodance:

[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]So the Taiyu would be … lin gamu (headphones) ?[/quote]It would be understood, yes. I think though a similar point to the Mandarin applies, where to be clear you should add
bē (賣).

Right, you would still say “賣.” The difference is that “有賣…無” is good Taiwanese grammar, while “有賣…嗎” is not textbook Mandarin, am I right there?

It’s funny that you would still have to say “erji,” I’ve never heard it said in Taiwanese at least.

[quote=“Tempo Gain”]Right, you would still say “賣.” The difference is that “有賣…無” is good Taiwanese grammar, while “有賣…嗎” is not textbook Mandarin, am I right there?[/quote]Agreed.

[quote=“Tempo Gain”]It’s funny that you would still have to say “erji,” I’ve never heard it said in Taiwanese at least.[/quote]Academic point of interest: I wonder if that would be considered a loan word, or code switching?

Some modern things have become established with a native Taiwanese word (often an indigenised semantic loan), like tiān-náu for computer, but it seems the word in question has to be quite common before that happens.