Used CB400's price dropping like stone

Life Cars & Motorcycles
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[quote=“Mer”]Thought I would add to the thread with this:
I had a Venox, just sold it last week to a fellow Forumosan, and rode it for 2 years before buying a Honda CB400SF. I love my Honda.

I know a lot of people are quick to slag off the Venox, being heavy, clunky, cheapo-Kymco dealee, but honestly, it’s a good bike. Kymco blew it by setting the list price at $185,000, which it still is. They made the first ones in 2003, and have continued to offer it up to 2005. I don’t know about 2006, but I would be surprised if you couldn’t buy a new on on the island.
It is heavy, but it feels good. You want fast off the line, get a Hornet, or go higher in the cc department. It’s got nuts, honestly. It’s just not that precision mountain curvy road kind of bike. It just wasn’t my style. My 150cc Breeze died and I needed to do something, and the Venox served its purpose for 2 years before I went to a yellow plate. I just prefer the pseudo-racing style more. The Venox served me well. I wouldn’t discount it as a choice in a 250cc. I don’t think there are many used ones around available, sadly.

Also, the 250cc Hornet is $260,000 new. If you are thinking about it, think $40,000 more and get a CB400SF. You gotta rev the piss out of the Hornet and a lot have engine troubles after 2-3 years. The CB400SF is only a bit more coin but a lot more bike.[/quote]

You can buy a brand new CB400SF in Chungli or Hsinchu for 262,000NT and the price is falling all the time. A 2005 model can be easily had for under 200k. I suspect by the end of the year you could pick one up for less than the Hornet.

The Venox is a chrome plated tractor that has about the same power to weight ratio as your average compact car. If it’s got nuts, they are small.

The new 250cc market still has nodda to offer the consumer value-wise with possibly the exception of the Grasstracker.

And at 185k the Venox has priced itself right out of the market.

And if you are going to consider the CB400SF, I’d suggest you check out the Kawasaki Ninja 650R first. A lot more bike for the money that won’t lose half it’s retail value in the first 12 months of ownership.

Moderators note: I split this off from the 250 thread, after coming to a consensus that there isn’t a single new 250 on the market currently worth purchasing. We then flipped over to the rapidly falling resale value of used 400’s, which may well make them the best used bike deal in Taiwan in the very near future. Continue the discussion along those lines, as well as any budget alternatives in the 250-320k range.

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[quote=“MJB”]
You can buy a brand new CB400SF in Chungli (Zhongli) or Hsinchu (Xinzhu) for 262,000NT and the price is falling all the time. A 2005 model can be easily had for under 200k. I suspect by the end of the year you could pick one up for less than the Hornet.

The Venox is a chrome plated tractor that has about the same power to weight ratio as your average compact car. If it’s got nuts, they are small.

The new 250cc market still has nodda to offer the consumer value-wise with possibly the exception of the Grasstracker.

And at 185k the Venox has priced itself right out of the market.

And if you are going to consider the CB400SF, I’d suggest you check out the Kawasaki Ninja 650R first. A lot more bike for the money that won’t lose half it’s retail value in the first 12 months of ownership.[/quote]

Sure, prices on most bigger bikes, a variety of brands, are falling, but not quite as fast as you’re suggesting. A CB400SF, even last year’s model, for under 200k? No way.

I’m sticking up for the Venox because I drove one for 2 years and know what it can do. You can quote specs, but have you driven one? More than once? I’m just saying that while the specs show it is heavy, it’s not a bad bike.

Honda motorcycles and cars, retain their value better than many other manufacturers. The CB400 and CB600 have been made for many years. There is no way a guy is losing half its value in 12 months.

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MJB pointed me toward one for NT$170,000 a week or so ago. Since then I’ve found a 2005 for sale for NT$185,000. I asked the store boss “why so cheap?” and he told me it’s not cheap. Just average.

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this is where I jump in to defend my hornet… sure, a cb400 isn’t much more… but the hornet is much sexier, doesn’t require a big licence, it’s light weight (which makes it great for the mountains) and is far less common than your run-of-the-mill cb400…

and if you’re complaining about revving the engine… hell… it’s fun revving it… :sunglasses:

not only that… but the fz6 isn’t far off on price either… in fact, a whole heap of bikes are dropping their prices rapidly…

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A guy can easily out-grow a 250cc Hornet. I figured I would buy a step ahead of myself when I got my CB400SF. To each his own, I guess.

Despite looking nearly identical, body, frame, etc., I felt the Hornet was too much of a toy, not enough of a real bike. The CB400SF is heavier, but that extra 150cc is well beyond compensating for that.

I stand corrected on the ‘prices dropping’ issue I suppose. I am still surprised to hear a 2005 CB400SF would be under 200k. Make sure the bike guys telling you this are not talking about the CB400, which is very different from the CB400SF. The CB400 is much plainer, nearly work-horse stylish. Not the same bike.

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The reason a new CB400 price drop is because of Ninja 650R price strategy…c’mon, who would buy a new CB400 for $270k or CB400 bol’dor for $288K when you can get 650R for $300K…don’t get me wrong, I ride CB400 too but I bought it about one and half year ago when 650R was still a concept :smiley: (J/K)…but If I had a choice between CB400 and 650R back then, I would definitely get 650R

BTW, 2005 CB400 for under $200K is very2x cheap!!..in current yahoo auction the average are :
2005 V3 : $210-220K
2004 V3: 190 - 210K
2003 V2: 160 - 190K

BTW, before I bought my CB400, hornet250 was my first choice…but none of my friends recommended it…glad I listened to them… :smiley:…happy with my CB400, but will be happier if I can afford 650R now :frowning:

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don’t tell my trusty fzr, but she may be replaced with one of those ninjas if I have another manic episode…smouldering pockets…

mmm…650…like…

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[quote=“StreetSpec”]The reason a new CB400 price drop is because of Ninja 650R price strategy…c’mon, who would buy a new CB400 for $270k or CB400 bol’dor for $288K when you can get 650R for $300K…don’t get me wrong, I ride CB400 too but I bought it about one and half year ago when 650R was still a concept :smiley: (J/K)…but If I had a choice between CB400 and 650R back then, I would definitely get 650R
([/quote]

Exactly.

I tried a few CB400’s while I was bike searching…Comfortable, but the power is in all the wrong places for day-to-day Taiwan style traffic.

Plasmatron (and thank you so much for turning me on to this fantastic machine) then put up a thread here introducing the Ninja…I was immediately drawn to the performance, price point and user-friendly powerband. Then I tried Mordeth’s, and I was sold. I’ve had mine for a couple of months now, and all I can say is I’m really, really glad I waited for this model to come out. It’s a great city commuter, very nimble in traffic for it’s size, and is awesome on our little mountain roads.

It’s not much bigger than the Hornet…A surprisingly compact package with good value for the money. I’d heartily recommend this over any new 250 or Honda CB400.

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[quote=“MJB”]I tried a few CB400’s while I was bike searching…Comfortable, but the power is in all the wrong places for day-to-day Taiwan style traffic.[/quote]Did you try the VTEC ones? That’s supposed to make the power curve friendlier.

I rode the regular, non-VTEC one in Thailand and I agree with you about the powerband. Fun to wind it up on the open road but a pain in city traffic.

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[quote=“MJB”][quote=“StreetSpec”]The reason a new CB400 price drop is because of Ninja 650R price strategy…c’mon, who would buy a new CB400 for $270k or CB400 bol’dor for $288K when you can get 650R for $300K…don’t get me wrong, I ride CB400 too but I bought it about one and half year ago when 650R was still a concept :smiley: (J/K)…but If I had a choice between CB400 and 650R back then, I would definitely get 650R
([/quote]

Exactly.

I tried a few CB400’s while I was bike searching…Comfortable, but the power is in all the wrong places for day-to-day Taiwan style traffic.

Plasmatron (and thank you so much for turning me on to this fantastic machine) then put up a thread here introducing the Ninja…I was immediately drawn to the performance, price point and user-friendly powerband. Then I tried Mordeth’s, and I was sold. I’ve had mine for a couple of months now, and all I can say is I’m really, really glad I waited for this model to come out. It’s a great city commuter, very nimble in traffic for it’s size, and is awesome on our little mountain roads.

It’s not much bigger than the Hornet…A surprisingly compact package with good value for the money. I’d heartily recommend this over any new 250 or Honda CB400.[/quote]

MJB, just wondering…you stated you are the third Wai Lao riding 650R…I’m guessing Mordeth is the first, so who’s the second one? :laughing:

Joesax, VTEC opens up only after 6,000-something rpm…the real power starts from that point…useless when riding in the city

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[quote=“StreetSpec”]Joesax, VTEC opens up only after 6,000-something rpm…the real power starts from that point…useless when riding in the city[/quote]The real power on all CB400s only starts after that point (actually more like 8000 IMO). VTEC is supposed to improve low-end performance by just using two valves up to the cutoff point, then using all four valves after that point to keep the high-end power.

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I still find it a bit curious that some of you are suggesting you can get a new CB400SF for under 200k. I scoured the net this morning, Taiwan e-Bay, and local bike dealers’ sites, and there are no CB400SF’s available for the prices you are talking about, even last year’s model.

Used, under $200,000? Okay, I’ll believe that, but new, no way. I also find it difficult to believe that in Chung-Li, the price would be nearly $100,000 less than Taipei. Any sites you can direct me to, to show me otherwise? The list price on a new bike won’t drop by 1/3 from 2005 to 2006. That’s a bit much.

Again, there’s a world of difference between the CB400 and the CB400SF. Make sure the guy quoting you a price is sure which one you’re talking about. New CB400SF’s are still around $270,000 minimum.

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[quote=“Mer”]I still find it a bit curious that some of you are suggesting you can get a new CB400SF for under 200k. I scoured the net this morning, Taiwan e-Bay, and local bike dealers’ sites, and there are no CB400SF’s available for the prices you are talking about, even last year’s model.

Used, under $200,000? Okay, I’ll believe that, but new, no way. I also find it difficult to believe that in Chung-Li (Zhongli), the price would be nearly $100,000 less than Taipei. Any sites you can direct me to, to show me otherwise? The list price on a new bike won’t drop by 1/3 from 2005 to 2006. That’s a bit much.

Again, there’s a world of difference between the CB400 and the CB400SF. Make sure the guy quoting you a price is sure which one you’re talking about. New CB400SF’s are still around $270,000 minimum.[/quote]

Huh?

Nobody said you could pick up a NEW CB400SF for under 200k…I did say you can easily find a 2005 for under 200k. And yes, both models I test rode and used as examples here were CB400SF’s.

I wouldn’t use Yahoo as a benchmark for determining price. They tend to advertise to the unsuspecting at well over retail. A dealer will also want to make between 25-40k on his sale, which puts the realistic “trade in value” of a 2005 CB400SF at about 140-160k using Sandman’s quote of 185k as an example.

Take that, and the buy price in 2005, which was between 290-310K and yes, the value has dropped by nearly half.

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[quote=“MJB”]…both models I test rode and used as examples here were CB400SF’s.[/quote]It’s the SF that I rode in Thailand too. But the non-VTEC version. Did you try ones with VTEC or without? That’s supposed to make quite a difference to the power delivery.

I still don’t really like the idea of VTEC though. Seems too fussy and just something else to keep maintained.

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[quote=“MJB”]

Nobody said you could pick up a NEW CB400SF for under 200k…I did say you can easily find a 2005 for under 200k. And yes, both models I test rode and used as examples here were CB400SF’s.

I wouldn’t use Yahoo as a benchmark for determining price. They tend to advertise to the unsuspecting at well over retail. A dealer will also want to make between 25-40k on his sale, which puts the realistic “trade in value” of a 2005 CB400SF at about 140-160k using Sandman’s quote of 185k as an example.

Take that, and the buy price in 2005, which was between 290-310K and yes, the value has dropped by nearly half.[/quote]

I didn’t use Yahoo or any one site or dealer site for the basis of forming a typical price on a new 2005 or other CB400SF. I’m not talking about used bikes or trade-in value here either.

Point me in the direction of a dealer or website that offers last year’s CB400SF (new) for under $200,000 and make me a believer. I’m skeptical. Sounds a little too good to be true.

People start throwing around bike prices, saying prices are bottoming out and what not, but when push comes to shove and you really check it out, it’s often times not as low as what’s been suggested.

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I have no idea what these things cost new. I’m talking used. Standard seems to be NT$170-NT$190k for a 2005 with less than 10k on the clock. Sounds like a good deal to me. I had a look at one offered for NT$185k again last night. I’m guessing the price would drop with a bit of bargaining. A very very clean machine – looks basically unridden – and yes, its an SF model.
But the bloke said if it were him he’d hold off for a few more months and get one for under NT$160k. That’s how fast the prices on 400s are dropping. He says he just can’t get them off the showroom floor any more and he puts the blame squarely on Mordeth, MJB, etc. with their cheap Kwaks.

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That would be a good deal for a used one. Thanks for your clarification.

I considered buying used last year, there were a few interesting options out there at the time, but ended up buying new because I plan to be here for some years to come. I knew I would get a decent return for my used Venox as well, to offset the price of a new Honda. I’d also never bought a new vehicle of any kind before and wanted to do it up right. I’m glad I did, even though it’s more coin obviously. The Honda warranty is nice to have too.

Sorry for going off-topic, from the 250cc thread debate this was supposed to be. I was a bit surprised to be reading some of the information/opinions shared here about the CB400SF, that’s all. It’s a great bike. I am very satisfied. V-Tec III is not a let-down in city traffic either, IMO.

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Quite right. It’s hard to put a dollar value on that “new bike smell,” eh? Anyway, I’m glad you’re having fun on it. Me, I’m still just TALKING about having fun. :frowning:

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That would be a good deal for a used one. Thanks for your clarification.

I considered buying used last year, there were a few interesting options out there at the time, but ended up buying new because I plan to be here for some years to come. I knew I would get a decent return for my used Venox as well, to offset the price of a new Honda. I’d also never bought a new vehicle of any kind before and wanted to do it up right. I’m glad I did, even though it’s more coin obviously. The Honda warranty is nice to have too.

Sorry for going off-topic, from the 250cc thread debate this was supposed to be. I was a bit surprised to be reading some of the information/opinions shared here about the CB400SF, that’s all. It’s a great bike. I am very satisfied. V-Tec III is not a let-down in city traffic either, IMO.[/quote]

Sorry man, didn’t mean to be a killjoy. The CB400SF is a great bike, I nearly bought one.

The budget twins are here, and between the Kawasaki and the Suzuki 650SV (If they drop the price about 40k) spell alot more bang for the buck than a 400. As Sandman mentioned, there is a huge overstock of 400’s both new and used out there right now. For example Ron-li in Chungli has a whole showroom full that they can’t give away at 260K.

They’ve also dropped the price on the FZ6 to accomodate the entry of the Suzuki and the Kawasaki into the marketplace.

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Just curious guys, how many qualified shops there are out there that will service (properly) Kawasaki and Suzuki’s. With the opening up of the big-bike market a few years ago, I see more and more varied brands and sizes here in Taipei city all the time. I don’t see a lot of shops that are just catering to brands like Kawasaki and Suzuki though. What do you suppose the future holds that way should a guy be considering something bigger after a few years. (my Honda is great, I’m far from out-growing it, but I’m just curious about future market trends, etc.)

And why are there not more options past 150cc for Yamaha? They are sort of missing the boat, in my opinion.