Usefulness of solar panel in Yilan area?

My farm land located on a hill in mountains in Yilan area facing South.
As there are no electricity yet I wonder would make any sense to install a solar panels to generate electricity for a small size shed? Is there are any data or research available that helps to make a educated decision?
At the bottom of the hill I see many houses have a roof solar heaters to heat a water

You should have no problem at all in Yilan. Insolation for the region is about 4.5 suns/day (yearly average), and from my limited experience the sky is usually very clear over there.

It all depends on what you want to DO with the electricity though. If you just need to run pumps, lights, tools, fridge etc., then I suggest a 500W installation with a 50VDC bus and 3kWh battery backup using four good-quality deep-cycle 12V 60Ah batteries. That will give you 2-2.5kWh/day, with a day or two’s worth of backup should you need it. Total cost should be no more than NT$70K.

If you want to run - say - an aircon system, then you will need a 2-3kW installation; in that case, I suggest a 360VDC bus which can operate an inverter-type aircon directly, using 150x100Ah OpZS cells (ie., ~33kWh). However, this will set you back ~NT$300,000 including panels, cells, and control system, so I wouldn’t really recommend that unless you really value your creature comforts.

You do, of course, need to make sure you have a clear space for your panels with no danger of shading.

make sure you also check the vertical-axis wind generators. Yilan is quite windy, and you don’t need to wipe the generator crystal clean to keep it working at 100% (as opposed to solar panels, which lose efficiency if they’re dirty).

Good idea, although the smaller ones are comparatively expensive for what you get out of them, and I suspect the made-in-China ones will break after a few months. Shop around carefully. The nice thing about having a wind turbine is that it complements the solar output - if you’ve got no sun, you might at least have wind, which lessens your reliance on batteries.

I like the solar/wind combo for the reasons that finley stated but I’m not exactly sold on vertical axis yet. We discussed them in engineering classes a decade and a half ago and they still aren’t really being used. I would stick with a more standard wind generator that has been used effectively in other areas.

I was surprised to see how many solar/wind installations (small time stuff) were available in my dad’s farming supply magazines when I was home this summer.

I like a solar/wind combination also. And I just thought of water we getting from above in the mountains to our land. Maybe it worth to consider to add small water turbine to solar/wind combination as water is free and I could create pretty good water pressure since we are on the hilly land.
To be honest I heard from different sources about vertical axis wind turbine but never heard anyone using it in Taiwan.
Probably if I go this route I will use smaller solar configuration as finley suggested (thank you btw for very thorough explanation) I think if need arise I could add additional panels later on.
But back up route I thought of (as normal taiwanese farmer would do)is to drop from my land (500m elevation) PVC pipe with power cable inside down the hill to a nearest electrical junction (about 700-800m away)

I really wouldn’t bother unless you have a large stream that flows all year round. The engineering is complex, messy, expensive, and could be unreliable. Nothing wrong with adding this as a backup source later if you feel the need, but solar is far and away the easiest to set up. You can have a functioning system put together in one day with no real technical skills.

Far better, I suggest, to just use the water for gravity-fed irrigation in the dry season. You might also like one of these, variously known as a sling pump, snail pump, or coil pump:

I saw one once, out in the middle of nowhere. Pretty big. AFAIK the main problem with VAWT is the awkward load on the bearings, so unless it’s a really good design with high quality components, it won’t last long before it needs an overhaul. And remember … typhoons!

Yes, the nice thing about solar is that it’s fairly easy to augment if you need more power, especially if you start with a control system and/or inverter that’s adequately rated for your (anticipated) future needs.

It would still cost you a lot of money to do this - NT$100K, I would think - and you’ll have electricity bills forevermore. Again, you need to think carefully about what you need the power for. The intermittent nature of solar is a very minor issue on a farm: for example, water pumps are going to see the most activity in hot weather - and that’s OK, because when it’s hot, it’s because the sun is shining.

Dude, you could check this link for optimum angle of a panel.
solarpaneltilt.com/

This is the sun-hour prediction for Yilan
gaisma.com/en/location/yilan.html

Variable I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X XI XII
Insolation, kWh/m²/day 2.02 2.22 2.99 3.96 4.82 5.69 6.83 6.35 5.08 3.81 2.74 2.18
Wind speed, m/s 9.27 8.76 7.57 6.59 5.92 6.21 5.73 5.86 7.07 8.65 9.29 9.04

This to tinker the angle and wondering how much loss that you could get by tinkering.
energyworksus.com/solar_power_in … angle.html

As you can see Yilan is quite suitable for both Solar Panel (during summer) and wind turbines (during winter)

Our company Hi-VAWT also selling combined Solar Panel-Wind turbine system to power your needs.
You could contact us: henry@hi-vawt.com.tw
hi-vawt.com.tw

[quote=“feropont”]I like a solar/wind combination also. And I just thought of water we getting from above in the mountains to our land. Maybe it worth to consider to add small water turbine to solar/wind combination as water is free and I could create pretty good water pressure since we are on the hilly land.
To be honest I heard from different sources about vertical axis wind turbine but never heard anyone using it in Taiwan.
Probably if I go this route I will use smaller solar configuration as finley suggested (thank you btw for very thorough explanation) I think if need arise I could add additional panels later on.
But back up route I thought of (as normal taiwanese farmer would do)is to drop from my land (500m elevation) PVC pipe with power cable inside down the hill to a nearest electrical junction (about 700-800m away)[/quote]

VAWT?
Check this link

www.hi-vawt.com.tw

[quote=“sewersquid”][quote=“feropont”]I like a solar/wind combination also. And I just thought of water we getting from above in the mountains to our land. Maybe it worth to consider to add small water turbine to solar/wind combination as water is free and I could create pretty good water pressure since we are on the hilly land.
To be honest I heard from different sources about vertical axis wind turbine but never heard anyone using it in Taiwan.
Probably if I go this route I will use smaller solar configuration as finley suggested (thank you btw for very thorough explanation) I think if need arise I could add additional panels later on.
But back up route I thought of (as normal taiwanese farmer would do)is to drop from my land (500m elevation) PVC pipe with power cable inside down the hill to a nearest electrical junction (about 700-800m away)[/quote]

VAWT?
Check this link

hi-vawt.com.tw[/quote]
There are no specs for hybrid system. Can you elaborate?

I recommend a Vertical axis wind turbine for a simple reason: less moving parts, less chance of breaking down, easier maintenance. The VAWT have ONE moving part: the actual turbine, mounted on the axis. Period.

The traditional wind generators have at least two moving parts: the fan (with the main axis) and the generator mount, which needs to turn to orient itself to the direction of the wind. Strong wind gushes swiftly changing direction (such as the ones from a typhoon) might damage the fan if it can not be oriented fast enough.

[quote=“Blaquesmith”]I recommend a Vertical axis wind turbine for a simple reason: less moving parts, less chance of breaking down, easier maintenance. The VAWT have ONE moving part: the actual turbine, mounted on the axis. Period.

The traditional wind generators have at least two moving parts: the fan (with the main axis) and the generator mount, which needs to turn to orient itself to the direction of the wind. Strong wind gushes swiftly changing direction (such as the ones from a typhoon) might damage the fan if it can not be oriented fast enough.[/quote]

That sounds logical in theory but there is still a reason that people are not installing them. If it was a no-brainer like you say then more people would be installing them. If it was my money on the line I would not use something with as short of a track record as VAWT.

Well … there are many different VAWT designs, and many different companies selling them. Some are good - they’ll probably last for years, and are no doubt easily serviced if they break. Some are really bad. Unfortunately, it’s pretty hard to tell which is which! It’s one of those things I’ve been meaning to try myself, but at the moment the better ones are just not good value for money.

[quote=“feropont”][quote=“sewersquid”][quote=“feropont”]I like a solar/wind combination also. And I just thought of water we getting from above in the mountains to our land. Maybe it worth to consider to add small water turbine to solar/wind combination as water is free and I could create pretty good water pressure since we are on the hilly land.
To be honest I heard from different sources about vertical axis wind turbine but never heard anyone using it in Taiwan.
Probably if I go this route I will use smaller solar configuration as finley suggested (thank you btw for very thorough explanation) I think if need arise I could add additional panels later on.
But back up route I thought of (as normal taiwanese farmer would do)is to drop from my land (500m elevation) PVC pipe with power cable inside down the hill to a nearest electrical junction (about 700-800m away)[/quote]

VAWT?
Check this link

hi-vawt.com.tw[/quote]
There are no specs for hybrid system. Can you elaborate?[/quote]

We have several size of VAWT, rated from 300W (1m diameter), 700W (1.5m diameter), 1500W (3m diameter) and 3000W (4m diameter).
We also sell solar panels and a system to connect both wind and solar power, include inverter and other auxillaries.
The solar panel rated at 260 W per each panel.

Do you have e-mail or phone number, mate? You could PM or send it to henry@hi-vawt.com.tw
I am not the sales, more of the R&D/engineering person.
Our sales will contact you ASAP (in English if you prefer :smiley:)

Our company is the only small VAWT company that is certified by Nippon Kaiji Kyokai (Class NK) Japan.
classnk.com/hp/pdf/authentic … wind_e.pdf
Check TC-0003 on the link.

[quote=“sewersquid”][quote=“feropont”][quote=“sewersquid”][quote=“feropont”]I like a solar/wind combination also. And I just thought of water we getting from above in the mountains to our land. Maybe it worth to consider to add small water turbine to solar/wind combination as water is free and I could create pretty good water pressure since we are on the hilly land.
To be honest I heard from different sources about vertical axis wind turbine but never heard anyone using it in Taiwan.
Probably if I go this route I will use smaller solar configuration as finley suggested (thank you btw for very thorough explanation) I think if need arise I could add additional panels later on.
But back up route I thought of (as normal taiwanese farmer would do)is to drop from my land (500m elevation) PVC pipe with power cable inside down the hill to a nearest electrical junction (about 700-800m away)[/quote]

VAWT?
Check this link

hi-vawt.com.tw[/quote]
There are no specs for hybrid system. Can you elaborate?[/quote]

We have several size of VAWT, rated from 300W (1m diameter), 700W (1.5m diameter), 1500W (3m diameter) and 3000W (4m diameter).
We also sell solar panels and a system to connect both wind and solar power, include inverter and other auxillaries.
The solar panel rated at 260 W per each panel.

Do you have e-mail or phone number, mate? You could PM or send it to henry@hi-vawt.com.tw
I am not the sales, more of the R&D/engineering person.
Our sales will contact you ASAP (in English if you prefer :smiley:)[/quote]

I sent e-mail to address you gave me:
"Hello Henry. I had a disscusion at Forumosa.com with one of your employee from engineering department about usefullbess of hybrid solar/vertical axis wind power system. He recommend me to contact you.
We have a farm in the mountains near Yilan, elevation 500m facing South. As of right now we don’t have electricity there and we researching available options.
Within 6-9 months we planning to build small storage/showroom(approx. 60-70 ping). We need to power 1-2 water pumps, TV, computer, refrigerator, AC and lights in the house and around.
I give you this information so you know how much approximately power we need.
Could you tell me:

  1. If your system will be suitable for Yilan area?
  2. How big deviation in power requirements depending night/day, summer/winter your system can and if can handle.
  3. What approximate cost we are looking at?
  4. How long it will takes to build and install the system?
  5. What warranty on your system and what after sales service option you offer?
    "

Double post :slight_smile:

Editing to make the numbers more suitable and easier to grasp.

Hi Serge,
Our sales will give you more detailed answer, but in brief (rough sketched) it’ll be like this:

  1. Yeah, if you install correctly, no blocking/shading from trees.

  2. Difference between summer and winter for solar panel, highly depend on the tilt angle and latitude.
    In the easiest case, the tilt angle is fixed.

In Yilan, latitude 24 North, the Panel should be tilted facing south at around 25 degrees (beta in the link below) from horizon for maximum output.
You could tinker the result from here
energyworksus.com/solar_power_in … angle.html

Using this you could get at least 70% from the maximum power that could be achieved when you using solar panel with 2-axis tracker.


Average house in US consumes about 900 kWh/month, varied from 500 kWh/month in Hawaii to 1200 kWh/month in Tennessee.
Average house in Japan consumes about 460 kWh/month.
Average house in the whole world consumes about 290 kWh/month.
(We see Americans as electric blackholes heh :smiley:)

I take 290 kWh/month as an assumption.
Assuming average wind regime of 5 m/s (achievable in most part of Taiwan, including Yilan), our DS-3000 wind turbine (4m diameter) could produce 200 kWh/month.
This turbine is rather large, so maybe a pair of DS-700 (each 1.5m diameter placed separately) could produce 40 kWh/month each, a total of 80 kWh/month.

The rest 210 kWh/month (assuming you using a pair of DS-700) need to be powered by solar panels.


Typical insolation (equivalent sun-hours, or ESH) in Yilan varied from 2.02 kWh/m2/day in winter to 6.83 hours/day in summer, with yearly average of 4.06 kWh/m2/day.
Considering derate value of 0.74 (a lower estimate), we could have an average insolation of 90 kWh/m2/month.
Ave-Insolation per month (kWh/m2/month) = Daily Ave-Insolation (kWh/m2/day) x 30 (days/month) x 0.74

rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators … derate.cgi

And accounting the earlier, 70%,
Area needed (m2) = Electricity needed (kWh/month) / [ 0.70 x Ave-Insolation (kWh/m2/month) x 0.15 ]

This means you need around 22 m2 area of solar panel (about 22 pieces of solar panel) with 15% efficiency (a typical value).
This could be installed on the roof or on a independent support system (preferable).

This number is rather large because the consumed power taken as an average world-(in-statistic)-household, for your application, it could be lower.

3, 4 and 5 will be answered by our sales later on through personal communication/e-mail.

Theses numbers are predictions, so for reference only.

Henry

PS: you also gonna need auxillaries such as batteries, inverter (or transformer), cables/wiring, support system for the panels and tower for the turbine.
And yeah, like finley said, we’re talking about hundreds Ks of NT here :smiley:

One of our hybrid system installation, using 2pcs of DS-700 and 12 solar panels, used for powering remote BTS.

My prediction (I do not know the exact price of our turbines/system, I am an engineer not the one deal with money :smiley:)
2 pcs of DS-700 could cost around NT 30000 each, hence 2 x NT 30000 = NT 60000
12 pcs of 260 W solar panel cost around NT 15000 each, hence 12 x NT 15000 = NT 180000

These only the raw components, already NT 240000, then add batteries, inverter, cables, concrete foundation, tower could easily past NT 300000.
So, unless you are really a green-type of a guy, then maybe conventional electricity would better for most people.
And, yes, I am speaking as a wind turbine engineer who suppose to promote green energy :smiley:

[quote=“sewersquid”]My prediction (I do not know the exact price of our turbines/system, I am an engineer not the one deal with money :smiley:)
2 pcs of DS-700 could cost around NT 30000 each, hence 2 x NT 30000 = NT 60000
12 pcs of 260 W solar panel cost around NT 15000 each, hence 12 x NT 15000 = NT 180000

These only the raw components, already NT 240000, then add batteries, inverter, cables, concrete foundation, tower could easily past NT 300000.
So, unless you are really a green-type of a guy, then maybe conventional electricity would better for most people.
And, yes, I am speaking as a wind turbine engineer who suppose to promote green energy :smiley:[/quote]
:frowning: Numbers quite sobering